A few days ago, we were happy to get a workaround for the bug mentioned in a previous post, so we went about implementing and testing—and things were working quite well.
Unfortunately, we've found a case where the workaround doesn't, um, work. I think I have a way of dealing with it, and so we're going to implement Workaround Part IV: The Reworkening and run it through the wringer.
Again.
These tests are really time consuming, as you might guess: it can take eight hours to rebuild a complex-case volume (so I try to keep one building while another is testing), and then more hours to run the test. I can't begin to tell you how frustrating it is to have a set of simple tests work and then find that the thing we found rearing its ugly head again in another (more complex) scenario that can (and did) happen in "real life".
This is why we don't just implement a fix and release, of course: we want to ensure it works before we toss it out there, and so we smoke test, test internally and then—if internal tests are OK—test externally, every time. We always are hoping for green lights at every stage. Sometimes, 99% of the way there, you get red. Then, the failure needs to be investigated, understood, reproduced...
Anyway, we'll leave that between me and my ulcer. If my new idea works, this will hopefully only delay things a few days, which will be plenty of time to fill the comments with complaints of our laziness, incompetence, lack of communication and general suckitude. Have at it!
Note: I've had to turn comments off for a little while because the subscriptions to comments are overloading my outbound servers (every time someone posts something, it's sent to the 200 people above their post), causing delays for regular support mail, etc. You can still review existing comments by clicking the title of this post. I'll turn them back on after the backlog clears. Sorry for any inconvenience: it's not that I don't want to hear what you want to say...
21 Jan 2008 at 09:11 am | #
Thanks for the update, Dave. I have tremendous respect for your desire to get things right before releasing the product. I’ve worked for some of the industry’s largest software companies and too many times I’ve seen a product rushed out the door with the “we’ll fix it later” attitude. Your dedication is appreciated.
21 Jan 2008 at 09:17 am | #
Hi Dave,
after 97 comments a new thread with a lot of room for new fun!
Thanks for informing us about the new problems.
BTW Is it right, that till now the only secure method of cloning my macbook drive is to boot from another 10.5 volume (e.g. DVD) and then use the Apple Disk Utility.app?
Greetings from Germany and good luck with your new “workaround”
Jürgen
21 Jan 2008 at 09:25 am | #
Thanks, Dave. I’ll say it again ... you’re doing the right thing ... ignore the whiners.
I just wish more software developers had your level of laziness, incompetence, lack of communication and general suckitude.
21 Jan 2008 at 09:28 am | #
Dave -
Yeah, kinda of a heavy sigh. I want my SD!, but I don’t want it to break anything, so you guys keep at it, and I"ll grit my teeth, too. I know you get a lot of whining from those with entitlement issues, but you always will. Once they have the finished product in their hands, they’ll shut up and move on to some other personal crisis.
As long as I know progress is being made, than I’m a happy camper!
21 Jan 2008 at 09:28 am | #
Your laziness, incompetence, lack of communication and general suckitude are now legendary. Blah blah Evil blah blah whine whine .
Seriously, I’m glad you guys are beating the hell of this so we don’t have to worry. There are alternative backup methods available but I don’t have the confidence in them that I have in SuperDuper. So I’m still running Tiger on all but a couple of test boxes. I’d rather wait for a backup solution that I can trust.
21 Jan 2008 at 09:35 am | #
No rush! We’re patient. Don’t allow the pressure beast cast a shadow on your programmer day It’s ready when it’s ready.
Software is a tricky thing - at any given point of the development process it always has bugs. The only difference is that at some point we’re less aware of them. This is kind of frustrating. However at some point the comparison between the relative bugginess of the currently used and shipped version to the relative (lack of?) bugginess of the upcoming internal version makes us decide to release, and then everything repeats itself. Ah well…
21 Jan 2008 at 09:35 am | #
I commend your decision to post an update. Not sure about the sarcasm though. People do have reason to be frustrated… That’s why regular updates are important - and appreciated.
21 Jan 2008 at 09:50 am | #
@LSF: not sarcastic—just pre-acknowledging the inevitable, hopefully with a smile.
@jb: that’ll certainly work: low-level copying like that avoids the kinds of things we’re seeing, because it doesn’t really work with the file system structures at all.
21 Jan 2008 at 10:11 am | #
I, for one, appreciate your thoroughness and conscientiousness when it comes to getting SD for Leopard right the first time. I’m on Time Machine for the time being on my main machine, but the other two Macs on the network are not being backed up, but their data is not changing much so old backups are sufficient.
Thus, my need for Leopard-compatible SD is not urgent, but I’d like it some time in the not-too-distant future. I would like to chime in my advice for the future, though: When Apple goes for the next big cat (my bet for the new name is Garfield), please get in on those developer previews that let you in on the guts of the system before it pounces on the public. With all the talk of ZFS, it would behoove you to bone up on that so that Garfield-compatible SD can be available on its release date. I’m sure you are involved in ADC, but let Apple know how important your product is and why you need advanced notice of file system changes.
That and four bucks will get you a cup of coffee!
21 Jan 2008 at 10:17 am | #
Sigh...I’ve been telling people that you will soon be Leopard compatible and they should wait to upgrade. I have taken my own advice, but I eagerly scan VT every day to see if you’re there. After your post last week, I though for sure I’d see you today, but the others are right, keep at it till it’s perfect, it’s a lot easier for people to complain that your haven’t released the new version than it would be to have to deal with a buggy version that hoses people’s systems!
21 Jan 2008 at 10:18 am | #
Echo the others. I’ve been in the “surely it’ll just be one more day” situation myself, and every time, I wish my clients had just said “take your time, make it solid.” So: take your time, make it solid! I’m looking forward to the warm blanket that is bootable clones, but Time Machine has been keeping me safe in the meantime.
I also respect your continued updates. I know how much it sucks to have nothing to deliver but “bad” news. My first instinct is to retreat into a hole and not delivery any bad news updates, which frustrates the heck out of clients. Your continued updates give me (and it sounds like, others) full confidence that you guys are working on this stuff as hard as you can.
And please don’t kill yourself over this! Get rest, get your head clear, and we’ll all be fine.
21 Jan 2008 at 10:26 am | #
Do you really have an ulcer, Dave? Please don’t take care of your software users at your own expense. Please, take the best care of yourself you can. I’ll wait to upgrade to Leopard without a single whine.
21 Jan 2008 at 11:04 am | #
The frustration of not having the program ready is overcome by the fact that when it is ready, it’s really ready. I would be more frustrated if I had a shoddy product in my hands mangling my data.
Thanks for the great work and good luck on getting it out the door. I will be one of many eagerly awaiting it.
Heard you mentioned by Merlin Mann during a TUAWS interview. Congrats!
21 Jan 2008 at 11:39 am | #
"I commend your decision to post an update. Not sure about the sarcasm though. People do have reason to be frustrated… That’s why regular updates are important - and appreciated.”
In what universe do people have a ‘right’ to be frustrated?
When he had news to update us on, he updated us on it. Frankly, until he knows whether this new workaround has succeeded or failed, I don’t care if he lets us in on it.
Just because you chose to upgrade to Leopard before Shirt Pocket released a Leopard compatible version of Superduper doesn’t mean that Shirt Pocket is responsible for your frustration. Honestly, when there’s a major version upgrade, it takes months for diagnostic, structural and infrastructural software to catch up to it. In part, that’s because it takes months for the OS itself to settle down from the post-release bugs that were discovered. Some of which, I would add, Shirt Pocket has themselves discovered and logged in this process. And in part, that’s because Quality Assurance is a damn hard job, that requires hours upon hours of grueling tests in multiple scenarios.
Just because he doesn’t post a blog doesn’t mean he’s not working on it. And just because you jumped in the pool before the lifeguard came on duty doesn’t mean the lifeguard owes you for your time.
21 Jan 2008 at 11:39 am | #
Thanks for the update Dave and for all your efforts you to make SuperDuper the best backup app.
21 Jan 2008 at 11:51 am | #
@Jessi: no, no ulcer, I don’t think. Just bags under my eyes, unshaven and tired.
@Eric Burns: in LSF’s defense, I think he said “reason to be frustrated”, not “right”. Hey, we’re all frustrated, perhaps me most of all.
@macFanDave: again, this wasn’t a matter of getting access to early builds of Leopard. We had, and used, those. But doing the initial engineering of an update that works with a test build, in test scenarious—even real-world scenarios on our own machines—is much different than testing that build with “real” customers (aka our external testers) after release. No matter how much testing we do internally, our external testers have different Macs, different drives, different usage patterns, and those tests can discover problems that need to be fixed. And so the cycle repeats.
So, if ZFS becomes the default file system (a really big question mark in itself, you know?), we’ll likely be in a similar situations. Sure, we’ll have more test cases to run against internally, but I guarantee that with a huge change like that we won’t be available day-and-date with release, because we would still have to do external testing with real customers, on the final, official, release build, and that can’t happen until it’s really out there.
21 Jan 2008 at 12:01 pm | #
Dave - I know that you probably do feel some pressure to have it out of the door sooner - but honestly - we’d all rather wait and get the right product that works perfectly rather than have a poor backup that we can’t use when the **** really does hit the fan and your internal drive fails ... !!
Best of luck with the coding.
J.
21 Jan 2008 at 12:02 pm | #
Best of luck as always Dave. I just hope the Leopard version of SD comes out before another kernal panic. My last full backup (outside of TM) is 25 October 2007. I really appreciate all of the effort and hope to see something soon.
Are you thinking hopefully by friday of this week? Thanks mate. Cheers.
21 Jan 2008 at 12:04 pm | #
Dave,
You are light years ahead of 99% of the developer world who would simply rather throw an app out to the public quickly to satisfy an arbitrary release date, than to hold off and really dig in to the core of the app to resolve all of it’s quirkiness. The process you are undergoing right now does nothing but add to your massive integrity as a developer. What that shows me as an end user, is that you not only care about your product, and your name that goes with it, but that when you say it’s done, IT’S DONE.
In then end, I can rest easy knowing full well that your app is going to work as advertised—and that one day, when all hell breaks loose, and I need to restore a system backup, I need not worry for one second that my SuperDuper backup is going to save my ass again.
Peace.
- Jacob
21 Jan 2008 at 12:07 pm | #
Thank you for your hard work getting it right and for not letting a few cry babies pressure you to rush it out unfinished.
21 Jan 2008 at 12:09 pm | #
Dave - I feel for you, I lost 3 whole months getting something to work on Vista that worked a treat in Tiger (and Leopard!) and W2k/XP. Keep at it, and keep the faith!
One day someone might even decide my software works and do a review, instead of ignoring it! Ho hum!
Looking forward to the release, whenever that is. I’ll wait
cheers
Biz
21 Jan 2008 at 12:10 pm | #
Patience is a virtue. I look forward to the release when in reaches your high standards. P.S. Does this update offer new goodies for Tiger users, or is it a Leopard only release?
21 Jan 2008 at 12:40 pm | #
No self-deprecation allowed. SuperDuper! rocks because it works like a champ. We’ll wait for the good stuff.
21 Jan 2008 at 01:21 pm | #
Before I forget (again!) thanks bunches and bunches for the tutorial about a Leopard Sandbox .. I kinda!@?@ forgot that Apple OS X is not Universal .. slight oversight (mine and Apple’s). Trust me, I’m looking forward to the Leopard version SuperDuper.
In the meantime, I have paid for CCC and am wondering if anyone on this blog has any first-hand experience cloning and subsequently backing up from their CCC clone ... I gotta do something. I do not really like Time Machine because there is evidence from TechTool Pro/Leopard that it fragments the hard drive horribly (250gb). Besides, I do not need snapshots, I just need a every-once-in-a-while clone.
Good therapy ... get outside with your “hairy child” and throw tennis balls or sticks and breathe all the fresh air.
21 Jan 2008 at 01:35 pm | #
Hey - we do know you’re working hard. And thanks for the updates.
Besides folks, it’s just software. Important software to be sure. But it’s not like Dave’s debugging the brakes on our kids’ school bus or something.
Everything in perspective. It’s out when it’s out. In the meantime, Time Machine and the Leopard Disks will get anyone where they need to go in an emergency between now and then. Yes it’s the long way around the block, but there are more important things to stress over. And I’m sure Dave is doing enough stressing for the bulk of us anyway.
-gb
21 Jan 2008 at 01:43 pm | #
Great to hear you guys are doing thorough testing of the product. There’s absolutely no use in doing a backup if it doesn’t work!
And anyways, it’s our own fault for upgrading to Leopard assuming all of the software we’ve come to love in Tiger will be there ready and waiting for us.
Keep up the great work!
21 Jan 2008 at 02:32 pm | #
Dave,
I’d rather have a version of SD that works flawlessly (like all past versions) and wait a bit than have you rush a questionable version out the door. Having lost data in the past, I’m counting on SD to keep that from happening again.
Take your time, get it right. The whiners would whine even louder if a “rushed” version of SD let them down.
Oh yeah, I’m unshaven, tired and have bags under my eyes too. Does that mean I’m a member of the SD development team??
Brian
21 Jan 2008 at 04:55 pm | #
Thank you for the update Dave. It is not necessary but it is appreciated. As for the complaints of laziness, incompetence, lack of communication and general suckitude, just remember that the reason that those few people are aggravated is because they are frustrated and not having your great software. If your software was lame no one would miss it. So keep working, keep things in perspective and know whether we are in the “I will wait for you forever” camp or the “you suck eggs” camp we all have one thing in common: We value your product immensely.
21 Jan 2008 at 05:46 pm | #
I finally figured it out!
You’re trying to get nominated for Wired’s Vaporware Awards!
21 Jan 2008 at 06:34 pm | #
Hey Dave, Thanks again for the update. When you are idly casting about for something to occupy your time (insert insane-laugh here), I would be interested to know how, if at all, the new Apple wireless backup disk sits in relation to SD.
Keep up the great work! Best, -Alan
21 Jan 2008 at 06:47 pm | #
no rush, mate! :D
21 Jan 2008 at 08:01 pm | #
I’m happy to wait for a product that works; Time Machine is adequate until then (I think - I haven’t tested it under real circumstances yet!). It’s nice to see your combination of 21st century uber-coding and 19th century pride in your work and your product - SD is built of steel, not plastic!
<sends e-hugs, e-razor, e-bedtime story> LOL
21 Jan 2008 at 08:51 pm | #
Keep working it, Dave. It’ll be done when it’s done.
21 Jan 2008 at 09:03 pm | #
Dave, by now, you know where I stand from my previous posts, but it’s amazing to see how, when you pre-acknowledged, the haters are almost silent. Here’s one for old time’s sake…
Wha?!! Another delay?? Dave, I can’t believe you still don’t have this ready. I don’t want to hear about any steenking magic folders. I want my freakin money back. I just bought SD six months ago and, @#@%@#%!, I’m entitled to my backups. Where’s that big stick with the rusty nails, pieces of bone and shards of glass in it? Ah, here it is, behind the Quadra 840AV! Now… WHOMP!!!… get that.... WHOMMPP-WHOMMPPPP!!!… update ready. You SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How was that, Haters? Did it seem sincere? OK, I’ll keep working on it. (Maybe I should have used more ALL CAPS, and some emoticons...)
21 Jan 2008 at 09:30 pm | #
When it’s all over ‘n done with, I think you should publish all these blogs in a book entitled “The Chronicles of Nanian.” I’d pay $27.95 for it. For the hard-back edition, that is.
(waiting...)
(still waiting...)
Dave, why is the book not out yet? What’s taking so long? This is ridiculous. It should have been out seconds ago. (JK! Rowling on the Floor Laughing)
21 Jan 2008 at 09:47 pm | #
Dave,
another post NOT complaining about laziness, incompetence, lack of communication and general suckitude. It’s great to know that you find and actually repair irregular behaviour before we all start making backups with SuperDuper and begin trusting them…
Keep up the good work!
Peter
21 Jan 2008 at 10:42 pm | #
I’d rather have no SD, than a buggy one that I then rely on - and then when it’s required it doesn’t deliver. Now that would be annoying…
22 Jan 2008 at 12:30 am | #
Awww man. I really feel for ya.
Best of luck with finding the problem and fixing it.
Looking forward to getting a working SD on Leopard!
22 Jan 2008 at 01:31 am | #
will the new release of 10.5.2 have a negative effect on your progress?
22 Jan 2008 at 02:44 am | #
Just wanted to let anyone with questions about Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC), the free cloning solution, I have used it multiple times since I got Leopard, and it seems to do fine with both backups and restorations. I have had minor issues with restored disks, but they’re nothing to worry about and I have no idea if it was because of CCC. It’s a highly recommended solution while you’re waiting for SD. I would consider ditching SD altogether except that SD seems to have a better “smart update” solution that I’m more comfortable with.
22 Jan 2008 at 04:36 am | #
Eager to see the final result and your hard work on this is an example to us all. I wish more software companies would give out these little statements so we would understand why things were delayed
22 Jan 2008 at 05:59 am | #
Sigh. I had my life mauled by Leopards because (my bad) I assumed that Superduper would work with Leopard, so when my hard drive got scrubbed (because I assumed iPartition would work with Leopard) my backup wasn’t functional. Totally my fault, told as warning and as to why I appreciate that when you say it will work it will.
All data was saved, and I’m slowly reinstalling the bits and pieces.
22 Jan 2008 at 07:10 am | #
Hang in there and don’t worry about anyone who complains about the delays.
Your software rocks because it is solid as a rock and I rely on it every day.
We trust you because you don’t trust your code till your tests are 100%.
22 Jan 2008 at 09:08 am | #
Keep rockin’ guys! Looking forward to the Great Leopardly Update
22 Jan 2008 at 09:12 am | #
I would be very tempted by an intermediate version that said: “this is ok, but don’t use it if...” ‘cause I could really do with an update, I’ve been on Leopard for a while, and I’m getting quite uncomfortable not having a solid backup.
Is there anyway I can usefully complain to Apple to get them to help you with this? As a consumer who uses Time machine, but really wants to use this option to. After all, this testing is entirely to backwards engineer something they are probably aware of…
22 Jan 2008 at 09:16 am | #
I think what’s starting to really upset me is the insinuation, first from commenters and now from Dave himself, that users have no cause to complain. I understand there are issues and that you want to release a 100% solid product. I go through the same rigamarole with my bosses at work but it never stops them from wanting the solution YESTERDAY.
Delays aren’t always a developers problem, but the fact is that the developer will always be on the line for them. That’s the way it is. It comes with the job. Deal.
22 Jan 2008 at 09:35 am | #
@Derek: I am absolutely not saying users can’t, or shouldn’t, complain. I’m simply trying to tell you what’s going on, and why.
If you feel that there are things to complain about, complain—the only “editing” I’ve done to comments in the blog, in one case, was to delete a message from someone who was personally attacking someone who was complaining, which I thought was not OK… because I thought they had every right to complain without being belittled. In fact, I’ve even explicitly said that I’m as frustrated as you guys are. Which I am.
@AlastairC: no, I don’t think that’d help. But thanks.
@dave: please see elsewhere in the comments (perhaps the previous post’s comments) for a discussion of 10.5.2.
@Alan Bristow: since Time Capsule isn’t out yet, we really don’t know.
22 Jan 2008 at 11:01 am | #
You guys rule and so does your software!
22 Jan 2008 at 11:20 am | #
Very good communication Dave! All the best from the Netherlands.
22 Jan 2008 at 12:06 pm | #
Keep up the xlnt work & we all look forward to the xlnt SW release that I know it will be! Will chip in for the Mylanta! : )
22 Jan 2008 at 12:18 pm | #
I can’t imagine how frustrating this has been for you, I hope you never find yourself in such a trying situation again. SD is by far the best of breed and certainly a product worth waiting for. However…
I have to agree with #45 & #46 above. It seems from your blog that for much of this rewrite
the problem areas have been known and narrowly focused. Yet 100% of your customers cannot use
the product because of a problem that may occur with 1% of them. If this situation should arise again (and I truly hope for all our sakes it does not), there has to be a quicker fix with parameters outlined as to situations that may be problematic and require caution and patience. The truth is, this is a retail product that you sell and advertise as necessary. I paid for this product and haven’t been able to use it for months. I understand the reasons why, but I wonder how many other companies could go so long with a product they sold being non-functional (readers of Apple’s forums won’t have to imagine how ugly it can be). You seem like a very nice guy, Dave, but when my store was out of a product my customers didn’t want to hear that the truck drivers were on strike, that the supplier ran out, that all my crew had the flu and couldn’t do inventory properly. I was supposed to make it work anyway. Just human nature. And they expected me to be sorry, and I was. Count yourself lucky in at least one way, though, as I am amazed at the people who want to pay you again for a product they haven’t been able to use. Most customers would expect you to give them some kind of compensation for what they view as their trouble, yours have almost unanimously rallied ‘round. Best of luck.
22 Jan 2008 at 12:24 pm | #
Derek wrote:
“I think what’s starting to really upset me is the insinuation, first from commenters and now from Dave himself, that users have no cause to complain.”
If you find cause, you have the right to complain. But I personally DO NOT give you the right to advocate by ways of complains, pressure, or other means, for the release of an unfinished product that will not work for me.
22 Jan 2008 at 12:35 pm | #
So will Leopard 10.5.2 throw another monkey wrench into the coding works ? Or, are you already testing against the latest seed ?
22 Jan 2008 at 12:51 pm | #
@Gary Kohl:
I think you’re making the same error earlier posters made, when you say “I paid for this product and haven’t been able to use it for months”.
You paid for a backup program that runs under OS X Tiger, and it still does that fine. You never paid for a version of Super Duper that runs under OS X Leopard, because that has not been for sale.
It is just wrong to argue ‘I paid for it and now I am unhappy because the thing I paid for isn’t here yet’.
I too paid for Super Duper and have used it under Tiger. I’m very happy I did because this fall my MacBook’s harddrive crashed and I would have lost a lot of data if not for my backup. THAT is what I paid for. Not (at least, not yet) for using it under Leopard.
I think your comparison is right though: in a shop situation, people expect you to do the best you can. And that is what we expect from Dave. I think he’s working very hard on it. So just wait until it’s done. It’s not going to get here any sooner because you and me paid for it.
22 Jan 2008 at 12:53 pm | #
@Gary Kohl: This has been said before, but SD is fully compatible with Tiger. You chose to be an early adopter of Leopard (as did I).
How long have you been a Mac user? I have been using Mac since System 6. Since I started using a Mac, versions 6x, 7x, 8x, 9x, 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 and now Leopard have all broken varying numbers of third party software titles, as have chip changes such as the move to the PowerPC chip and the move to the Intel chip. It’s incumbent upon the user—not the third party software companies—to make sure all the apps he/she can’t live without are compatible with the version of operating system and hardware he/she is planning to upgrade to before taking the plunge.
On the other hand, it’s good for business to have your software compatible with the latest version of system software and the latest machines. Of course, Dave knows this.
But don’t blame Dave for decision on when to upgrade your system. That was your choice (and mine).
Peace out.
22 Jan 2008 at 01:00 pm | #
I really appreciate the testing procedure that you’re going through. This software and my mixer drivers are the only thing keeping me from upgrading to leopard(again)! The process you are going through keeps the end users from multiple headaches we would otherwise endure! Thank you so much. Sorry for the ulcer,and thanks for taking one for the team! that’s dedication to your customers!
-Jimi Lee
http://www.indieradiochattanooga.com
22 Jan 2008 at 02:01 pm | #
Hal and Michael, I agree with you, and for that reason I have waited this long to post. But when I purchased SD it was with the expectation that it would be updated in a timely fashion. Now I know that the problems Dave has encountered are not his fault, and that he is working his butt off to rectify them. But similar problems may arise with 10.5.2 and what I’m seeking here is a plan “B” in case they do, as I do not believe this update has been “timely”. I have been using Macs since OS 7 and have never had to wait this long for what Dave rightly calls an essential piece of software to be updated to work with the current version of the OS - which is one reason I felt safe being an early adopter. I do not think that I should have to wait this long to use the version of the Mac OS I prefer simply because a software program I have purchased in the last year or so can’t be made to work with it. So my point is simply that as a paying customer my needs are that some mechanism be put in place for I and other customers like me can use SD in the event that this situation arises again. I love SD, I greatly appreciate the work Dave and the team are doing, but I truly believe that the current situation is untenable.
22 Jan 2008 at 02:05 pm | #
<<deleted by moderator - too abusive toward Gary, sorry.>>
22 Jan 2008 at 02:33 pm | #
@Gary: Then you’re fortunate. I waited great lengths of time, closer to a year, I believe it was, on Adobe to get CS3 to make its creative suite compatible/universal with Intel Macs, and since Leopard’s release, I am in need of another CS3 upgrade to remedy flaky behavior with from the InDesign component of that suite. In short, Adobe isn’t yet fully compatible with Leopard as of today. I’ve waited long periods of time for Quark, Freehand, and Suitcase upgrades over the years. It’s not fun, but it’s not uncommon.
Dave happens to be in the crosshairs because his software has to be more flawless than most others. It’s not the end of the world if InDesign is unstable and crashes once or twice a day on me, but having a non-functioning backup when I need it would be pretty catastrophic.
Still, in the spirit of this blog, may the floggings continue until morale improves (and until 2.5 is released).
22 Jan 2008 at 03:11 pm | #
@Gary Kohl: I must say, I can’t quite see what you’re getting at - you throw out nebulous statements about “expectations” and “mechanisms” and “problems may arise” and nothing concrete. It’s provably impossible to foresee any possible failure—especially when parts of the OS that should be utterly reliable turn out to be otherwise. So, short of reverting your installation to a version of Mac OS X that is known to work, I don’t know what “mechanism” you expect anyone to devise that could possibly have any chance of working. As to your “expectations”, I regret to say that any difference between your expectations and whatever the reality turns out to be is something that you’re going to have to reconcile on your own.
22 Jan 2008 at 03:26 pm | #
Thanks for the update, Dave.
I keep alternating backups between Time Machine, Mozy, and ChronoSync to a RAID/NAS (am I being paranoid? just in case one of them fails (like my last FW backup disk). Yet none of them will be good enough if I get a massive disk crash on my system boot disk. So I come back and check here every few days for SD on Leopard. The only thing worse than having a system crash now is making bootable backups and discovering after the fact that they were corrupted all along.
So put me down as one of those appreciative of the meticulous way you’re going about getting it right.
22 Jan 2008 at 03:48 pm | #
Brian: I did get to read your post before it was deleted. All I can say is that I was in retail for 3 decades and always believed that a customer was a customer whether they spent $5 or $5000, and therefore deserved my attention.
Hal: Again, I don’t disagree, except to say that those companies all made it clear well before hand that their programs would not be compatible for quite some time. I was referring more to small developers like Dave who work hard in smaller operations. My bad for not clarifying.
Rich: If 10.5.2 comes out and breaks all of Dave’s and the teams’ hard work again, as may happen, I’d like Dave to consider doing something he decided not to do in an earlier post. That is, if after a certain period of time the problems can’t be solved, give us a version which will work in specific situations. As I said in my first post, Dave has made it clear that for a while now it’s a very specific problem holding things up. I realize he’s anxious to make the program perfect and we all use SD because it has always been perfect, but what I’m suggesting has been suggested before: a temporary version to be used under carefully stated situations only. I’m o.k. with Time Machine while I wait for my OS backup, but I have very large data files which change often and I can’t use with Time Machine - but from what Dave is saying, it sounds like I could use with SD as is. I’m asking that if a protracted series of problems occurs in the future, he considers again the
option of a stop-gap version, because that’s what my need is. If this isn’t important to enough other people, then, o.k., I’ll just have to deal. But I wanted to make the SD crew aware of my needs.
That’s all from me folks. Hope I’ve provoked some useful dialog and not just a lot of anger.
22 Jan 2008 at 04:06 pm | #
@Gary Kohl
I think what you’re asking for is not unreasonable, and I disagree with anyone who thinks that somehow you shouldn’t be asking Dave to consider it. But in the end I think probably it’s a bad idea because let’s face it there are plenty of people out there who will ignore (or simply not understand) whatever warnings Shirt Pocket might put in place.
The other thing, of course, is that SD 2.5.0 will still need some bug fixes once it gets into the wild. The last thing Shirt Pocket needs is to still be dealing with a time-consuming, elusive, and intractable bug while also dealing with the flood of new bug reports that will come with the first public release.
22 Jan 2008 at 04:14 pm | #
Thanks Dave for the update, SD is the best and the best is worth waiting for. It has never let me down and this is down to your hard work and dedication to getting it right, I will wait patiently and wish you a speed completion. Thanks for the past updates, I look forward to the next. Respect!
22 Jan 2008 at 04:14 pm | #
general suckitude!!!
thats a good one.....
No rush.........
It has been said before ....but.....
I’d rather have no SD that a buggy SD......
Take your time and get it right.....
Just like your are doing!!!
Thanks for the update!!
22 Jan 2008 at 08:21 pm | #
Although I tend to be a very impatient person, I’m really grateful for the extra care and time you’re giving to be sure the Leopard version of SuperDuper it make totally dependable. Wouldn’t it be a joy if some of the giant corporate software vendors (do I mean M?) took as much care before they release a product yo the market.
22 Jan 2008 at 09:47 pm | #
@Hal Neal
How long have you been a Mac user? I have been using Mac since System 6. Since I started using a Mac, versions 6x, 7x, 8x, 9x, 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4…
Have been using since 1.0 with the Macintosh 128 in 1984.
22 Jan 2008 at 09:52 pm | #
@Ross: That question was directed at Gary, within the context of how long I’ve often had to wait for upgrades to be released.
But congrats on being a charter user.
22 Jan 2008 at 10:49 pm | #
I don’t believe you (shirt-pocket) are lazy, or that you suck. Superduper is a great product. But after getting back from macworld, and now going into the 4th month of no update, I think it’s quite clear that your company is completely over its head, simply without the resources to get a leopard version out in a decent time period.
And again, I say this as a big fan of superduper, and the support you put behind your product. Those two things are why you could still be using the ‘get it right’ excuse a year from now and there would still be people here telling you it’s ‘ok, thanks for doing things right!”, which of course would be nonsense.
I have confidence in shirt-pocket putting out great software. I no longer have confidence that you can stay up with changes. I guess that’s the good and the bad.
23 Jan 2008 at 12:15 am | #
Just want to chime in as another person willing to wait.
We quiver with...an...ti...ci..............(say it).....pation.
23 Jan 2008 at 12:45 am | #
@g:
“I have confidence in shirt-pocket putting out great software. I no longer have confidence that you can stay up with changes.”
Huh? I believe you’re contradicting yourself.
The thing is, 4 months after Leopard’s release, Leopard still sucks in certain areas. My printer driver windows stay open after a job has finished printing, Mail opens two windows when I drag an attachment onto the Mail icon in the dock, and apparently Leopard creates Magic Folders, which sound like a screw up rather than an intent. Maybe Apple’s in over its head. Leopard feels kinda beta-ish sometimes, does it not?
Makes those Mac commercials about Vista users downgrading to XP ring a bit hollow.
Dave, next time, if I were you, I don’t think I’d post any updates. Take a lesson from Steve Jobs. He never mentions the struggles. Only the achievements. Oh, by the way, has everyone forgotten that Leopard was nearly a year late being released? And it was still hurried out the door.
23 Jan 2008 at 01:31 am | #
Just remember to pull over and have a sandwich, occasionally.
23 Jan 2008 at 01:51 am | #
"Huh? I believe you’re contradicting yourself.”
Not at all.
“Leopard feels kinda beta-ish sometimes, does it not?”
Nope. Not at all. I’ve had none of the problems you’ve had. Of the people I know personally who’ve switched to leopard, and I now a lot, only a few have had any problems and all have been minor. At macworld I was a part of and listened to hundreds of conversations about leopard and the general consensus was that it was well worth the upgrade. Not a single time did I hear anyone wish they were still using tiger. So I’d say you’re in the minority.
Regardless, arguing your point by pointing to supposed leopard problems is neither here nor there. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that line of thinking.
A backup with a problem here or there is better than no backup at all.
23 Jan 2008 at 02:04 am | #
Could you perhaps tell us what problems we might run into when using 2.1.4 under Leopard? Is this something we should just not do, or will it get everything right except for a few issues that you might be able to enumerate?
Thanks.
23 Jan 2008 at 08:16 am | #
@g: I’d say the problems I’ve had are minor, other than a nasty keychain problem that Leopard shipped with, which screwed me up, but part of that was my fault because Apple offered an update to fix it right away, but I had my software update set to check weekly, so I went for a week not using the latest version, like an idiot. Don’t get me wrong. I love Leopard and it’s new features. I wouldn’t go back because of the these minor glitches.
Back to My Mac is a great feature, but it’s another thing that seems to be flawed. I thought it had something to do with sleep modes, but I’ve told all my Macs to never sleep, and it still loses its functionality after awhile in use, so it doesn’t seem to be quite ready for prime time either. Or maybe it’s me and not Leopard.
I love my iPhone (which has had a slightly buggy OS history too, btw; thankfully the latest upgrade seems much better), and I covet the new lower-priced 8-core machine and the MB Air and Time Capsule. In short, I’m what the dark side calls a fan boy. I want pretty much everything Steve has ever said, “There’s one more thing...” about. But Steve’s given us a thimble full of Kool-Aid this past year along with all the amazing hardware and software. But it’s all been definitely worth the trade off.
Leopard was verrrrryyy late, based on when Steve first led us to believe it would be out. I know a lot of the lateness was because he shifted resources over to iPhone because he had committed to a firm release date on the that, but it was very late. I take it you don’t disagree with me there.
Do me a favor. Drag a PDF or JPEG or something like that onto the Mail icon in the dock and tell me whether two Mail windows pop up or not. Just curious.
And when you print, your printer window opens, prints the job, then closes like it’s supposed to? I wish mine did.
23 Jan 2008 at 08:47 am | #
@Hal Neal:
“Do me a favor. Drag a PDF or JPEG or something like that onto the Mail icon in the dock and tell me whether two Mail windows pop up or not. Just curious.”
Yes, that is a known bug (I filed a bug and got a reply from Apple saying: yes, we know thanks).
Quite annoying :p
23 Jan 2008 at 09:14 am | #
@g: I apologize. I just tried the drag and drop mail test on my MBP and I don’t get the double-window thing happening. I know two other people that are having the problem, so I just assumed it was something most people were just living with. (yeah, I know what you get when you assume.)
I do get the print window staying open on both machines, but that may be an Epson driver problem. Dunno.
Also, when I stop an email in “mid-send” in Mail, I don’t get an Outbox, so it’s hard to get to that email . Workaround: I send a second email, wait for the Outbox to appear, then go into it and get rid of both emails. And, for a very long time (definitely in Tiger’s version of Mail), when I send a JPEG to a person on a PC, they tell me to re-send as an attachment, so it’s getting embedded. My workaround has been to format the email as plain text. I was hoping Leopard would fix that old Mail problem, but it didn’t. And, yes, I have “Windows-Friendly Attachments” checked.
OK, I’ll shut up now about Leopard, since all in all, it is an awesome OS, and, moreover, since this is a SuperDuper blog.
23 Jan 2008 at 09:18 am | #
@Martin: Thanks for the info. I won’t bother trying to troubleshoot, in that case.
23 Jan 2008 at 09:19 am | #
just for curiosity I tried - drag a file onto Mail - only ONE window opens here.
23 Jan 2008 at 10:00 am | #
Not running Mail in leopard yet, but I do get printer windows staying open. I only print to HP printers here at work, so its not an Epson issue as suggested earlier here.
23 Jan 2008 at 10:21 am | #
My printer windows (or more accurately, the printer “application") stay open or in the dock after I print, too. And I use HP printers at work, and Canon printers at home. Whatever happened to “automatically quit when finished printing?” I hate having to manually print.
@Gary Kohl. I think your idea of releasing an unfinished version that only works under certain defined parameters would work, but not in this specific case. What Dave is describing with the issue is a bug in the operating system. It’s hard to tell under what conditions the bug manifests itself (though he’s obviously developed test cases and instructions on how to generate them for the testers), and under what conditions the “magic folders” get created. Ok, so maybe 1% of people are affected. But how do they know they are affected? What if they run programs that create hard-linked folders with the “magic bit” set and don’t know? All it would take would be one or two people who assumed they wouldn’t get bitten by the bug to get bitten by it and then say “SuperDuper is buggy,” despite the fact they were warned.
Now, if he released it under a set of EASILY identifiable parameters, “i.e. will work under 10.5.0 and 10.5.1 but NOT 10.5.2,” then it might make more sense.
Also, I should point out that it took Alsoft over a year to go from Diskwarrior 3 to Diskwarrior 4. And it took them 6 months after Apple announced the Intel switch to release an Intel-compatible version. And a Leopard-compatible version has yet to show up. And I think it’s going to take them a while longer before it does. Diskwarrior, like SuperDuper, is one of those software utilities that has to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT the FIRST time. I’m willing to bet that Alsoft got the golden master the same time as Dave did. On release day. The LEAST Apple should do is get the Golden Master in the hands of developers a month before shipping. But nooooo, they’re too afraid of leaks, so EVERYONE suffers. I’m not saying it’s not Dave’s fault, but Apple definitely shares in the blame here.
I agree with everyone else here. I’m glad Dave is taking the time to get it right, even if we have to wait a bit longer.
23 Jan 2008 at 10:43 am | #
@Hal Neal “My printer driver windows stay open after a job has finished printing...”
Right click on the Dock icon and select “Auto Quit.” Then the printer queue application will quit and disappear from the Dock once it’s finished processing the print job.
And Dave, thanks for the latest update. Unlike some others above, I’m not so presumptuous as to use the “we” word to speak for users I don’t even know (with regard to whether the wait is acceptable or not); but, I’m satisfied with the apparent progress being made on a Leopard-compatible SuperDuper. It’s not like there’s a total void with respect to an interim back-up solution...use TimeMachine. Granted, it’s much more time intensive to recover a hard drive from TimeMachine but I’ve seen reports of folks doing it without issues. So there is a work-around...one already build into the OS and obviously blessed by Apple. Certainly a better alternative than just waiting an indeterminate time for the SuperDuper update and hoping that nothing will fail in the interim.
23 Jan 2008 at 11:20 am | #
@Felix: Thanks. I love it when it’s something obvious like that.
23 Jan 2008 at 12:06 pm | #
Hal Neil said:
“Dave, next time, if I were you, I don’t think I’d post any updates. Take a lesson from Steve Jobs. He never mentions the struggles. Only the achievements. Oh, by the way, has everyone forgotten that Leopard was nearly a year late being released? And it was still hurried out the door.”
First, please don’t make historical statements unless you can back them up.
Leopard was announced at WWDC in August 2006, with a scheduled release date of “spring 2007”.
http://www.macrumors.com/events/wwdc2006.html
Most people anticipated that Leopard would be released prior to WWDC in June 2007, but in April 2007 Apple announced a 4 month delay in order to refocus their OS X developers on the iPhone.
http://www.tuaw.com/2007/04/12/apple-announces-leopard-delays-due-to-the-iphone/
While a 4 month delay is eerily similar to what’s happening with SD, it also is a far cry from being “nearly a year” or “verrrrryyy late”.
I haven’t posted a comment here for over a month. Why? Because I felt my criticisms weren’t coming across to the majority here.
Being a developer myself, I can certainly sympathize with the frustrations Dave is going through. What I didn’t agree with was the lack of a regular update back in November and early December. Leopard was released October 26, and 7 weeks later (December 14), there was all of three updates. When I mentioned this in the comments, others made me feel like I was being unreasonable to the point that I felt my thoughts were not wanted.
Since December 14, there’s been 4 updates in a bit over 5 weeks. I think that’s a bit more timely, and have no real problem with how things are going.
I’m not looking for a daily update - hell, most of the time that would mean a post saying “testing is ongoing”. I’d like to see a post saying something to the effect of “if nothing else comes up through the next round of tests, we’ll release on [fill in target release date here]”. But that doesn’t seem to be Dave’s style and that’s cool.
I’m frustrated - but not as much a Dave is - but am patiently waiting. I’ve been keeping my archives up to date along with my remote backups and CCC clone. But I’m standing by my original comments that a timely update helps. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that!
23 Jan 2008 at 12:40 pm | #
@all,
Ok the Mail thing is way off-topic. However there is a bug and a way to reproduce it (which I cannot remember right now). It doesn’t happen always. But Apple is aware of it (it hapens to me for example), and they will -eventually- fix it. Let’s just hope 10.5.2 brings some more fixes to the Mail arena. Mail has loads of small bugs in Leopard. The TO-Do, Notes, thing *suc*s big time Try using only the keyboard. :p
Back to SD!, unfortunelly I haven’t been included in the beta program (I would have loved to because as a user and developer with great enfasis in usability/UI design I could’ve added some positive -and negative- feedback), but I trust that it’s going to work great
Let’s all be patient.
23 Jan 2008 at 01:32 pm | #
@Dave: You’re right about Spring 07 being the release date. I stand corrected. I didn’t think about the technicality that June 20 is the last official day of spring. I assumed March or April, now that I think back, so yeah, I was fudging for dramatic effect. So I’m 0 for 2. It then came out in the 4th quarter. And it was prematurely released, in my opinion. Assuming 10.5.2 gives us the old rock solid OS that we’ve come to expect, it will be close to Spring 08 before Apple gets it right.
So let’s compromise. Let’s call it 6 months or so late, and somewhat flawed but functional when it did come out, but still a nice upgrade from Tiger.
@Stavros: Disk Warrior’s not ready either? That’s a little worrisome too. That’s a great app and has saved me a number of times, but obviously wouldn’t save me if something catastrophic happened today.
23 Jan 2008 at 02:43 pm | #
From the update: “… and so we’re going to implement Workaround Part IV: The Reworkening”.
I just have to say, even though it wasn’t pre-screened for critics, I’m really happy Rutger Hauer is still working.
23 Jan 2008 at 02:53 pm | #
@Hal Neal: Hal, the haters are silent because they are gone. The haters waited and then Christmas came. The haters waited and then MacWorld came. MacWorld is long gone and with it 99% of the haters. No amount of hate can last as long as the time it is taking to release a Leopard compatible SD!. That is why the whining has slowed down, only the believers are left.
23 Jan 2008 at 02:59 pm | #
@oscar: Where’d they go? I might like to try what they’re having.
23 Jan 2008 at 03:12 pm | #
@Stavros:
If you Control-Click on the printer icon in the dock you’ll see a menu item for “Auto-Quit.” This will solve the problem you described.
It should be set up as the default but for some peculiar reason it isn’t.
Cheers.
23 Jan 2008 at 04:02 pm | #
Scott:
Thanks for the tip on the printer icon. It’s been bugging me - and now it goes away.
You meet some more knowledgeable folks on the SuperDuper! blog.
Now if we can get Dave “over the hump”, all will be well.
23 Jan 2008 at 04:45 pm | #
oscar: I really hope you don’t see the world that way. People can disagree without one group being haters and the other believers. People can have legitimate needs that cause them to disagree with you without them being evil. Demonizing those who disagree with you has led to many of the worst problems in the world today.
And every “hater” that’s lost is actually a paying customer that is lost, and I don’t think anyone wants to see Shirt Pocket lose any money - I’d much rather those their pockets get full so SD can hire all the help they need for Dave - for both his sake and ours.
23 Jan 2008 at 04:52 pm | #
Do you provide ADC with the list of defects you encounter so they can address them in future releases? Or are some these problems just a “feature” of Leopard OS?
23 Jan 2008 at 05:05 pm | #
Thanks for the update on your progress.
I am using Time Machine to back-up my Mac Pro from one internal HD to another internal HD. While I think TM is wonderful, I am still a little wary of relying on it exclusively. Therefore, I am looking forward to using SuperDuper to back up my primary HD to an external Firewire HD, which I keep in a fire safe.
I have been using Macs at home for more than 20 years and I have only experienced two HD crashes. Thanks to diligent back-up habits, both crashes were relatively painless. I developed my back-up habits by backing up my first HD (70MB - $1,000) to 3.5” dual sided floppy discs. Today, using multiple HDs and SuperDuper is like a jumbo jet compared to the horse and wagon back-up system that I started with many years ago.
23 Jan 2008 at 05:41 pm | #
I posted this to AllMacs yahoo group and wanted to share it with the developers and users of SuperDuper!
I know everyone tells you to do a backup, and there are many methods to do this.
I wanted
to share with other Mac users my backup and restore success story using
SuperDuper!
A friend acquired a Mac G4 running Tiger. While the internal drive in this
system was years
old, the choice was made to do daily backups and when the drive fails, simply
replace it,
restore and move on.
I selected SuperDuper! for my friend and at the end of each session, SuperDuper!
was run
with a Smart Update, with the option to have it automatically do a shutdown.
This worked
out fine.
After 4 months later, an error message appeared at boot-up that the internal
drive was
having problems. After booting from an external drive’s rescue partition it was
clear that
drive needed to be replaced.
A quick trip to Staples Office store with a replacement drive. I swapped them
out, booted
from external hard disk’s rescue partition, and got the new drive ready. I then
had it do a
copy using SuperDuper to restore the drive. After the copying, I was able to
boot from the
new drive and it worked perfectly. My friend didn’t loose a single byte of data
and was able
to continue working as before, which included still doing daily SuperDuper!
backups.
External disk drives are very cheap, and it is a good investment to get an
external drive
larger than what you need to backup. This way, you can have a rescue partition,
and
multiple partition backups, trading off “even” and “odd” days, so you always
have a
working bootable copy just incase the backup fails and messes up what it is
backing up to.
Or you needed to retrieve something from the backup before last.
What I found out is important using SuperDuper! is that it backups up
everything,
including the meta data, and even the creation date of the drive. It really is
doing a clone.
You can use it in the free version, but for a crummy $27.00 you can get the full
version
which allowed the smart update for backups which is well worth it.
SuperDuper! is very easy to use, and to learn more about it I highly recommend
people go
visit their web site to check it out by going to:
http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html
Warning: The Leopard version according to their web site is still being worked
out, but do
yourself a huge favor and bookmark it. If you are using Tiger, you can use it
right now as I
am doing.
23 Jan 2008 at 05:52 pm | #
Beautiful man, just beautiful. I need a Kleenex.
23 Jan 2008 at 10:17 pm | #
I have been waiting for this for months since I set it up on my parents computer as a test case (little to no data changing, small drive, not used often so I could have it unusable for some time). I tried TimeMachine, hated it, disabled it, realized SD wasn’t compatible in OSX, sat for a few weeks without any backup, got nervous, turned TM back on and swallowed my irritation. I absolutely will buy this once it is done and working. Keep up the work, and the day its released will make the wait worthwhile.
Thanks!
23 Jan 2008 at 11:27 pm | #
I’m eagerly awaiting the new version, and will desperately want to trade some money for a Leopard compatible SD.
As seen from many more of the comments, your work is appreciated and thanks for doing what you do.
24 Jan 2008 at 12:23 am | #
@Hal Neal:
DiskWarrior will not function properly if run from Leopard.
You should still be able to run it from it’s own CD just fine. But even though some people are saying it works, I don’t know if I could trust it with the new Leopard additions to the HFS+ file system, especially with it running from Tiger.
24 Jan 2008 at 03:35 am | #
” But I’m standing by my original comments that a timely update helps.”
This is just good PR. Regular communication helps grease the skids of human relationships, even if it’s not the anticipated news.
Silence kills.
Think of this: What if there were nothing but dead silence about SD? We’d all move on, assuming the project were dead.
Keep up the communication every week or so. Don’t grovel too much. Everybody wants something that they can continue to trust.
24 Jan 2008 at 05:47 am | #
@Edward Coast (#95)
WTF? This is a SuperDuper user’s forum for crying out loud! What did that laborious post accomplish besides stating the obvious? Or did you just feel a need to restate the SD feature set to the...USERS?
24 Jan 2008 at 10:01 am | #
Got a couple of questions if you current + former users wouldn’t mind!
I’ve not actually used this program yet (or ever created a bootable backup) - can I have SD make a bootable backup to my FW800 drive at the same time has having lots of other data on that drive or do I need to partition it?
Also, how the hell do you boot from a FW drive (i.e. to test that the backup has worked or if/when it’s needed for real)
wtf is a “sparse backup”? & why would I wanna do that?
1 more (sorry) - can I do the above to a nas drive? - I’m gonna get a 1TB RAID 1 (2 x 1TB mirror) Nas… Will I be able to create a bootable backup to my NAS as well has having lots of other data there (or will I need to parition) + how do you boot from a NAS drive or is that not yet possible - in the event of failure, would I have to transfer the bootable backup to my FW800 THEN boot from that?
Sorry for being a noob at backing up but hey, you gotta start somewhere.
Thanks in advance!
24 Jan 2008 at 10:31 am | #
@Leo: this is the wrong place to do this kind of thing. Why don’t you pop over to the discussion forum and start a thread there?
24 Jan 2008 at 10:31 am | #
@Leo (#102)
Suggest you post those questions in the Discussions area. This Blog is mainly for updates/comments on the upcoming Leopard-compatible SuperDuper.
24 Jan 2008 at 10:34 am | #
"can I have SD make a bootable backup to my FW800 drive at the same time has having lots of other data on that drive or do I need to partition it?”
With the SD! current version (not the -not yet released- leopard one), you need a partition which should be at least the same size as the drive you’re partitioning.
“Also, how the hell do you boot from a FW drive (i.e. to test that the backup has worked or if/when it’s needed for real)”
You plug it in and restart your mac; then you can hold any of the following to access any of these special boot modes:
C - Boot from the internal optical drive (CD or DVD)
D - Boot the diagnostic volume of the install DVD
N - Start from the Network (NetBoot)
R - Force PowerBook screen reset
T - Boot into Firewire target disk mode
X - Reset startup disk selection and boot into Mac OS X Server
Shift - Boot into “Safe Boot” mode, which runs Disk First Aid. A reboot will be required afterward.
Option - Boot into “Startup Manager”
Mouse Button - Eject (internal) removable media
Command-S - Boot into Single User Mode (command line)
Command-V - Boot using “Verbose” mode (shows all kernel and startup console messages)
Command-Option-Shift-Delete - Bypass internal hard drive on boot and seek a different startup volume (such as a CD or external disk)
Command-Option-P-R - Reset Parameter RAM (PRAM) and non-volatile RAM (NVRAM)
Command-Option-O-F - Boot into “Open Firmware”
“wtf is a “sparse backup”? & why would I wanna do that?”
Are you talking about Sparse Images? You might want to create a .DMG of your entire drive, so you could carry this img, mount it, copy it, etc. as if it was your disk.
“can I do the above to a nas drive? - I’m gonna get a 1TB RAID 1 (2 x 1TB mirror) Nas… Will I be able to create a bootable backup to my NAS as well has having lots of other data there (or will I need to parition) + how do you boot from a NAS drive or is that not yet possible - in the event of failure, would I have to transfer the bootable backup to my FW800 THEN boot from that?”
That’s actually Three more questions
You cannot do that to a Nas drive AFAIK, but I don’t know.
Also since SD! can backup to USB/FW drives, I’m not sure about the other, maybe using scripts, but Dave should help you here.
If you create a Sparse Image you might -via scripting- copy that image to your NAS Drive. But -as you’ve guessed- restoring would imply much more work. The best solution to clone your internal drive is to have a dedicated USB/FW drive (or two if you’re like me) and clone regularly (daily, weekly, etc.).
“Sorry for being a noob at backing up but hey, you gotta start somewhere.”
No problem, the fact that you’re thinking about doing it, is much more than what 80% of the users do
Well, Time Machine might mitigate that. But I’d rather have a bootable clone over any TM drive. (not that I don’t like TM or the concept, but the two are different beasts, as seen on other posts).
Good luck with that!
24 Jan 2008 at 10:50 am | #
Just wanted to say thanks for working so hard on this. I really appreciate all the effort put into this stellar app. Keep up the great work and I’ll keep checking back in. Don’t listen to the naysayers...you don’t really need them anyway
24 Jan 2008 at 11:00 am | #
24th of January, still no SD. Looks like we’re headed for “another week or so” post from Dave
24 Jan 2008 at 11:13 am | #
Gee, thanks, Pete. How did you know I can’t read, much less tell time nor keep up with days?
24 Jan 2008 at 11:18 am | #
Dave,
How are things going? If you’ve got a minute and expect we’ll be waiting past Monday then please make another post sometime before the weekend. I think we’d all appreciate hearing from you.
Hope progress is being made and things are going well; best of luck.
-B
24 Jan 2008 at 11:27 am | #
Like everyone else said: delighted you’re making reliability the number one priority. Back-up is about peace of mind, and you’re making SuperDuper deliver that in spades.
No offence to Apple, but I sometimes wish they’d focus more on squashing bugs instead of ploughing ahead with new features.
24 Jan 2008 at 11:30 am | #
@ Dave - Yeah sorry I totally didn’t mean to hijack the post. All future issues I’ll post in the forum. I wish you the best in fixing the bug that’s holding you back - I’ll be buying SD the second it’s released!
@ Martin, I thank you so much for taking the time to answer all that - sometimes, asking somebody knowledgeable can get the same answer in 5 minutes as would have taken hours of internet trawling. - Internet Forums FTW!
24 Jan 2008 at 11:43 am | #
Those people who would complain about someone taking the time to get it right, are the same ones who would try and drive-off with the garage door still closed.
I once had an electronic supplier send product to me, knowing full well it was broken. But they wanted to get paid, and they decided to address the problem when everything was in the field.
Very stupid. John ***, lost his company out of greed, and short-sighted planning.
I might have wished for it earlier, but I would have waited. It was just a stupid company who wanted to get paid before they got it right.
Congratulations on doing it the honorable way, and anyone who thinks that’s wrong, and they could do it faster (it is always easy for the guy who doesn’t HAVE to do it), go start your own company.
So, complainers, quit your bitchin’; shut-up and sit-down.
Let those who actually care about getting it right do their job.
24 Jan 2008 at 11:49 am | #
Sir yes Sir!! Please forgive us all, Sir!
Wow. I thought all the haters had left.
24 Jan 2008 at 12:30 pm | #
We all like to think we are smarter than we actually are, and it can take years of scars before we become disabused of the notion that we can predict with certainty when something is ready for release.
I’ve released many products over the years, some with more bugs than I care to admit, but one story might be apropos to illustrate how the unknown can bite you.
One of the products that I was involved in in the late 90’s was a desktop search product called AltaVista Discovery (like Google Desktop, only done a decade earlier .
We were already 2 months late in releasing Discovery, and had put together a release candidate that our marketing team was chomping at the bit to go with. The final step was a 2 week internal test release to the engineering department. Three days into the engineering release we started to get calls from some engineers of their WIndows NT workstations slowing down and eventually freezing (not even BSOD it just locked up).
We were getting heavy pressure to release it since it was only occurring on a small percentage of the workstations and Marketing felt we could manage the fallout with an auto update as soon as we could fix it. As engineers, we simply felt that we couldn’t make that call one way or another until we knew what the problem was. It turned out to be the right decision.
After trying to debug it remotely I flew several of our top engineers from the Digital Australia lab up to our San Mateo offices to debug this onsite. We even had one of our Digital engineers who had intimate internal knowledge of NT look at the code to see what was happening. After 2 weeks of elapsed time, we finally traced it down to Norton Disk Doctor, which was illegally trapping low level IO calls. Since our system indexing involved many calls to modify our indexes, it was indirectly causing Norton DIsk Doctor to overflow it’s buffers, and eventually grind to a halt.
The solution was simple (putting the AltaVista Directory index folder on the Norton DIsk Doctor file exclude list), but the lesson learned for many on the team was that, no matter how much you test during development, you can’t know everything, and it’s not ready to release until it’s ready to release. Even then, you always take a calculated risk in something biting you, but at least you’ve satisfied yourself that you’ve caught all of the problems that you can anticipate.
Here’s a problem that Dave has found at the last round of testing, because his knowledge of the internal changes in Leopard was incomplete (by definition), and now that he’s found it, he’s doing what every good engineer does with a severe bug .... try to understand the problem enough to fix it, and ensure that his fixes work, and don’t cause any other problems. But until he’s done, he’s not done, and all he can do is use his optimism (we all have that and make an intelligent guess as to the release date.
And we’ll continue to receive his reports with good cheer, and applaud him on with the common understanding that he (and we as customers) sees the light at the end of the tunnel, and we’ll come out into daylight “real soon now”.
Cheers,
Breen
24 Jan 2008 at 01:03 pm | #
thats a long frikken post
24 Jan 2008 at 01:29 pm | #
Translated/Edited Version:
“SD!...another week or so”
24 Jan 2008 at 02:12 pm | #
Super Duper 2.5 leopard edition will be ready… when it’s ready. Now everybody, back to your duties. Stop whinning. Dave loves you all.
24 Jan 2008 at 02:20 pm | #
But Dad,
My duty IS to whine…
24 Jan 2008 at 04:27 pm | #
OK. We gots room for one whiner. The job’s yours, RobLaw. Now, what else? How ‘bout a wise-ass? Yep, check; that is, if HalNeal is still around. The rest of us are but bit-players. Sigh,it’ll be a sad day when Dave makes us all happy and this road show closes.
24 Jan 2008 at 04:42 pm | #
Ahh yes, it will indeed be a sad day when SD! 2.5 is released. We’ll all have to find somewhere else to play.
Oops! Sorry if I just stepped on HalNeal’s toes with that last comment.
24 Jan 2008 at 05:14 pm | #
Much love to my SD brethren and sistren.
24 Jan 2008 at 05:26 pm | #
Sorry, haven’t read through all of the comments prior to mine, but is everything going to be OK when 10.5.2 comes out? I’ve heard that its a *MASSIVE* update (some 400Mb) with some major bug fixes under the bonnet. I hope you guys aren’t sweating blood getting SD working just right, only for Apple to put a big 10.5.2 spanner in the works… :-(
Keep up the good work, gents. Your product is legendary...!
24 Jan 2008 at 05:32 pm | #
Only one man can answer that one… and apparently he ‘aint talkin’.
24 Jan 2008 at 05:49 pm | #
@RobLaw: that’s because “one man” is under NDA, and can’t comment. But has certainly made general comments at least twice about “point updates” in general.
24 Jan 2008 at 06:01 pm | #
Oh… So an NDA regarding your thoughts on SD! 2.5 having another wrench thrown in the works by 10.5.2? That’s what the guy asked, not “Can you reveal confidential info about 10.5.2” ! ?
24 Jan 2008 at 06:11 pm | #
This reminds me so much of a state highway construction site.
One guy working and 3 standing around talking, watching the one guy work.
and it’s taking as long as a state funded project come to think of it.....
24 Jan 2008 at 07:24 pm | #
Keep up the good work. I’m looking to sell my old iMac G5, but I moved it to Leopard. So until Super Duper works with Leopard, I can’t clone the drive.
24 Jan 2008 at 07:34 pm | #
@RobLaw: commenting about how 10.5.2 affects anything that Apple hasn’t publicly announced is contrary to the NDA. While I could discuss aspects of Leopard that were in the Keynote—and thus publicly released by Apple (and presented on their web site) before Leopard’s release—nothing about 10.5.2 (including its existence, actually) has been publicly released.
But, as I’ve already said, SuperDuper!’s history with “point updates”—and, in fact, every update that didn’t make large changes to the file system—have been rather good, over the years.
24 Jan 2008 at 07:41 pm | #
I’m so impressed with how careful you’re being. As much as I want the next version of SuperDuper!, I feel good that when it’s good and ready, it really will be SuperDuper!
Thanks for your careful attention to detail.
24 Jan 2008 at 08:21 pm | #
Truly outstanding QA, and sincerely appreciated. I’d be happy to pay for upgrades on a product with this level of quality.
24 Jan 2008 at 09:36 pm | #
Everyone else has already put it succinctly and eloquently, but wanted to add in my two cents. Yep, I agree with everyone. Love SD! and mostly because it works and works right. As such, waiting is not a problem. I was stupid enough to upgrade to Leopard prior to checking all my software for compatibility, so I’m a little anxious for the update. But there’s no doubt that having a broken product would be ten times worse than having to wait for a properly functioning product. So I’ll wait. Thanks for the great work and hope you get some rest in there somewhere.
24 Jan 2008 at 10:34 pm | #
Your ‘general suckitude’ makes me laugh. Watch the ulcer. May the whiners live in interesting times.
24 Jan 2008 at 10:49 pm | #
I just hope that he update to Leopard (which I understand will likely come out in the next fortnight) will not bugger up things once again.
Probably makes sense to wait for this update before running the final tests.
24 Jan 2008 at 10:58 pm | #
Yes, by all means, work out the bugs...but I still can’t help but feel this is getting a little ridiculous. I think that it is admirable that people post supportive words, and deep down I share those warm sentiments (by no means would I want dave to get an ulcer).
On the flip side. There are businesses to run, work to be done and a whole lot of computers running Leopard that have zero protection from failure at the moment. And I mean real protection, not this CCC and Time Machine crap.
There’s the dilemma, I want to say “Dave it’s okay take your time, work it out” and it needs to be worked out of course, but I would be lying if the SD delay has not affected my work in a major way.
I’m not a hater, just a business owner who has come to rely on a fantastically dependable and reliable product. Never did I think it would be anything but.
so I wait…
24 Jan 2008 at 11:56 pm | #
One would think a responsible business owner would be reluctant to jump on new updates prior to verifying that backup of critical data is still possible. You have to wonder why large companies wait weeks and months to apply new service packs, etc. That you chose to move to Leopard was either a risk you were willing to take, or a risk you didn’t do your homework on.
Get over it people, you were never guaranteed a particular release schedule, other than informal updates here. That he is even saying anything should put him above the majority of vendors. I’m sucking it up with TM for now, and I’m sure many people haven’t upgraded because of this. WE are all content with our current backup status.
25 Jan 2008 at 12:27 am | #
It’s been 90 days since Leopard was released.
Eagerly awaiting the release of 2.5
Thanks, Dave, for your hard work. Your struggles vindicate my choice not to go into CompSci…
hang in there!
25 Jan 2008 at 03:33 am | #
@Chris (#135)
>>WE are all content with our current backup status.
What’s this “WE” stuff you’re throwing around? You’re not speaking for me (or many others if you’ve bothered to read these posts)...I’m not satisfied depending solely upon TimeMachine as my backup solution. It works and is a good interim solution but it’s not a bootable backup and would take several hours to be back in business again if my primary drive failed or became irretrievably corrupted.
So how about speaking for yourself and not be so presumptuous as to assume that all the rest of us concur with your views about “all” being “content.” I, for one, sure am not. But I’m satisfied with the progress Dave is making and feel that he’ll eventually distribute a solution which will work reliably as I’m come to expect.
I’d like to wipe my primary disk clean and reinstall from a clone (to get all files contiguous again...defrag if you will) but I’m unwilling to do that with my TimeMachine backup. But I will when Dave distributes a Leopard-compatible SuperDuper. That’s how much I trust that what he puts his stamp of approval on will “just work.” So I’m not about to bug him to to put something out before he’s 100% satisfied with it. Yes, it comes down to trust.
25 Jan 2008 at 05:11 am | #
This is an interesting link, which I confess I haven’t tried myself…
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=2008011623365026
25 Jan 2008 at 07:25 am | #
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned before but I found a backup solution (online) unlimited storage for only $5/month.
For those that need something NOW, check it out:
https://mozy.com/support
25 Jan 2008 at 07:58 am | #
>>I’d like to wipe my primary disk clean and reinstall from a clone (to get all files contiguous again<<
I have done so twice, using CCC with no problems, effort, waiting, _or_ cost.
Not sure what the big deal is about SD (no offense intended.) CCC seems to do exactly what you describe with no issues, and it works NOW.
SAS
25 Jan 2008 at 09:24 am | #
Dave,
You keep working and I’ll keep waiting.
I’m using Time Macine now and like it. But I’ve had no drive failure, which would probably change my love of TM. For me, there is no substitute for a bootable SD clone.
25 Jan 2008 at 09:46 am | #
@Sal Sessa (#140)
>> I have done so twice, using CCC with no problems, effort, waiting, _or_ cost.
>>Not sure what the big deal is about SD (no offense intended.) CCC seems to do exactly what you describe with no issues, and it works NOW.
I took Dave at his word when he said “CCC doesn’t handle everything Leopard serves up” in this thread (#16). Maybe I need to take another look at CCC. Anyone else using it satisfactorily without mucking up permissions?
25 Jan 2008 at 10:45 am | #
I used CCC before SD!, and am using it again now that SD! is no longer available (for Leopard). Have restored, and booted from my CCC clone with no issues.
I have also found Leopard to be a fantastic upgrade from Tiger, with very minor bugs (unlike the experiences of some) and a fantastic new OS. I know many here complain at how Leopard is way too buggy and not ready for prime-time, but I’d bet the second SD! is Leopard compatible, all those nay-sayers will make the jump to Leopard in a heartbeat!
25 Jan 2008 at 01:54 pm | #
I have had so much poor luck with the Apple Airport Extremem Base Station. It is definitely a software problem and it admitted by Apple Tech Support. This has gone on for months and still no solution from Apple.... So what I am saying is, keep up the testing and do not release a bug ridden piece of software like Apple did on the AEBS. I would much rather wait and be assured the program works than have to deal with problems afterward…
25 Jan 2008 at 03:35 pm | #
On perusing the Shirtpocket site I found the following regarding netTUnes and Leopard:
“Unfortunately, due to some problems we’ve encountered with APIs that we rely on, we’ve been unable to complete our Leopard version. The problems have been reported to Apple, and we’re awaiting a fix.”
I hope this is not the case with SuperDuper! as well! That would be a major bummer.
25 Jan 2008 at 04:38 pm | #
No, if this was the case with SuperDuper!, I would have indicated it long, long ago.
25 Jan 2008 at 05:03 pm | #
How about indicating an update on the SD! 2.5 release? How’s it going with that few day delay?
Thanks
25 Jan 2008 at 05:35 pm | #
Not to worry. We rather have a product that works. We are all here waiting until you are done.
thanks
25 Jan 2008 at 10:09 pm | #
Not to worry. We rather have a product that works. We are all here waiting until you are done.
Jesus why do people keep repeating this nonsense.
Shipping a nonworking product or not shipping at all. In both cases a product I paid for doesn’t work and is useless. There is no difference.
Most of you people are a companies wet dream. In some ways I wish shirt-pocket would take 6 months to get superduper out. I promise you many of the same people here would still be saying “its ok, great job! I would rather have a product that works!” And anyone who complained would be told they shouldn’t have upgraded.
Congrats dave. You got my money and I got 3 months of service. Hope you’re happy buddy.
25 Jan 2008 at 10:49 pm | #
@ matt - Hey, I’m not really happy about all the wait either. But what you paid for was a backup solution that worked with Tiger. You still have that. You were never guaranteed a backup solution that works with Leopard AT ALL. Now not only has Dave guaranteed you one, in the near future, he is also giving it to you for free. You’re paying the early adopter’s tax, in a sense.
I wish it was released three weeks ago too, but bitching about it on his blog probably isn’t going to make it happen any faster, and in fact will probably just discourage him from continuing the product after the next update.
If all your customers did was bitch at you, and it wasn’t really your fault (but a 3rd party’s), do you think you’d stay in business long?
I know I wouldn’t. Screw that.
25 Jan 2008 at 10:54 pm | #
@matt. Completely agree.
The fact is, Dave keeps throwing out these time projections “ a week or so...a few days...” and hasn’t made good on any of them. Wake up people, there’s no indication that this won’t continue for the next four months.
So keep posting your “take your time” posts and Dave can keep posting meaningless time projections to keep you happy.
25 Jan 2008 at 10:57 pm | #
@ matt - Hey, I’m not really happy about all the wait either. But what you paid for was a backup solution that worked with Tiger. You still have that. You were never guaranteed a backup solution that works with Leopard AT ALL. Now not only has Dave guaranteed you one, in the near future, he is also giving it to you for free. You’re paying the early adopter’s tax, in a sense.
I wish it was released three weeks ago too, but complaining about it on his blog probably isn’t going to make it happen any faster, and in fact will probably just discourage him from continuing the product after the next update.
If all your customers did was bitch at you, and it wasn’t really your fault (but a 3rd party’s), do you think you’d stay in business long?
I know I wouldn’t.
25 Jan 2008 at 11:04 pm | #
@Ben When you charge money for a product, you open yourself up to customer dissatisfaction. That’s part of operating any business, take Microsoft for example : ) . You’re right though, nothing stopping him from discontinuing the product if he doesn’t like the customer feedback he’s getting.
25 Jan 2008 at 11:46 pm | #
@Matt, Mika, sarah and other complainers: ...then when you are dissatisfied, you move on. Go ahead people...move on. There is a great good number of paying customers, me included, willing to wait.
26 Jan 2008 at 02:17 am | #
OMG
He is working on it. It will get done eventually.
Try to relax people.
26 Jan 2008 at 05:02 am | #
I have a licence of SD and have patiently awaited a Leopard Upgrade. Even though Dave is doing a good job, it is rather unsatisfying that a new version has not been released yet. In my case, CCC is really not an option since I only have managed to get block-to-block copy working. For those of you who cannot wait: check out Synhronize! Pro X as an alternative. It seems to work flawlessly with Leopard. Acutally if you google for backup programs to Leopard, you will find that there are a lot of them out there already. So, this puts Shirtpockets problem in a somewhat different light. Is SD an excellent program? Yes, of course. But is it so much more complex/different than other programs? I do not think so…
26 Jan 2008 at 08:02 am | #
I have had enough!
It have made more sense to launch SD with that minor bugs, that will happen perhaps under “some circumstances”.
You blow sth. out of all proportions with bugfixing under duress every bug.
So, although Synchronize is not the cheapest way, I’m be tired of waiting day for day.
Goodbye.
26 Jan 2008 at 11:16 am | #
Keep up the good work! Don’t let impatient people stress you, these guys would be first to complain about a itzy bitzy minor bug.
Kind regards
Ralf
26 Jan 2008 at 11:21 am | #
>>Congrats dave. You got my money and I got 3 months of service. Hope you’re happy buddy.<<<
I asked for my money back the day I bought the product, right after I found out CCC was free, AND working with Lepoard. Of course, I was told by Dave that “sorry, but no.”
So much for customer service.
Can’t create a dispute via Pay Pal after 45 days, and (wish I did, but didn’t) now too late.
So, I hope my $28 (wow) was worth losing me as a satisfied customer. I might have even bought back the product IF it ever came out in my lifetime. Now, even when it does, I don’t see a lot of use for it, since I am happy, and actually getting use out of CCC.
:(
26 Jan 2008 at 11:41 am | #
Point of correction to Sal Sessa. I don’t believe CCC is “free”’ if I’m not mistaken a donation is requested. Your license for SD was for Tiger and not for Leopard. KwitchUrBellyAching and sit back and relax. Send a donation to CCC.
26 Jan 2008 at 12:52 pm | #
I’ve been using BruCLONE for my bootable backup and Crashplan for my scheduled backups (I was using SD up utill Jan when I upgraded to Leopard...just could not wait for an update any longer). I can confirm that BruClone works great and is definitely a viable alternative to SD for cloning. Admittedly, I was very reluctant to the idea of using other software since I’ve been using SD exclusively, but now I’m glad I did make a change.
Sure, these options are more costly, but the way I see it, what good is a cheaper solution that doesn’t work when you need it. The lesson I’ve learned is not to rely on one product cuz you never know when it could be all over. Backing up your system is WAY too important.
26 Jan 2008 at 01:16 pm | #
Send a donation to CCC.<<<<
I did.
I believing in supporting those that “come through.”
And don’t believe in supporting those that don’t.
SAS
26 Jan 2008 at 01:21 pm | #
>>>I believing in<<<
Ha. Woops. Sorry.
Should be “I believe in.”
Obviously.
26 Jan 2008 at 03:36 pm | #
Maybe it’s time for a quick update from Dave on the current progress - this might help quell some of the “Bad JOOJOO” going down in all these comments.
Once again we’ve gone beyond what Dave said in his last Blog (Jan.21), “Hopefully only delay things a few days...” and all we hear is the sound of silence (and users arguing). We’re not mad, just curious! Of course if I mentioned anything off-topic I’m sure Dave would be happy to spend time writing paragraphs in response. But ask for a simple update we shouldn’t even have to ask for?
Regardless of how many may attack me now for asking the unthinkable of Dave giving out just a little news of progress, I ask anyway. The last hopeful time-frame has passed and it’s time to let your customers in on some hope of their own… if there is any.
That’s all I need for my $28.
26 Jan 2008 at 05:26 pm | #
Hi @ all,
i expect that the SD Leoprd Update is for free. I’ve baught SD because near to the release of Leopard, the developers said that SD is compatible with Leopard as well. I’m waiting now for the Update since the release of Leopard but i can understand problems in developent and im to long in Business to believe that there will be no problems with such a big Update.
From my part of view the developers of SD should think about beta releases for customers. Most of the customers know that a beta is still not supported but they can maybe have a working piece of software until the final release. The others point are the advantages for developers because a lot of betauser will maybe find a lot of problems. Have a look at VMware. Many betauser and on a one hand counted amount of bugs.
This will make the life for developers more easier.
Regards from Braunschweig.
26 Jan 2008 at 06:00 pm | #
"Regardless of how many may attack me now for asking the unthinkable of Dave giving out just a little news of progress, I ask anyway.”
What a martir.
26 Jan 2008 at 06:22 pm | #
Its “martyr”, but please don’t feed the trolls. It’s all they live for…
They only come out when things aren’t going the way they feel is correct or “right”, as if they and they alone call all the shots on everything that touches their pathetic little lives. They provide nothing, create nothing, but demand everything. And always on their own schedule.
Dave N. should charge them an upgrade fee just for the annoyance.
26 Jan 2008 at 06:29 pm | #
Patience is a virtue - most of us are virtuous, those who aren’t, well, try and learn....
26 Jan 2008 at 07:04 pm | #
I want to second Stephan’s suggestion. Dave, it would resolve a lot of the frustrations of the SD community if you released a beta of SD 2.5 to paying users. Having a SD backup of a Leopard system that works *more or less* is better than having no SD backup at all - which is what many people here seem to be risking (I’m not going to talk about Time Machine, CCC or other backup methods because they’re not the point).
Doing this wouldn’t need to interfere with your (justifiably) watertight testing standards for the final release, but it would make a lot of paying customers happier until that release happens.
Is there any paying customer here that wouldn’t be in favour of Dave releasing a beta to us now?
26 Jan 2008 at 07:17 pm | #
@ Morten
You make a good point, but I wonder just how much more complexity this would add to an already complex scenario.
Dave would have to somehow make sure that only registered users have access to the beta, then write some type of legal-ease to protect against whatever loss of data, etc. Plus, there would be no guarantee that the beta would magically appear on some peer-to-peer site.
I like the idea, but it seems to me that it would just create another problem? Not to mention the time away from just getting the bulletproof 2.5 final release out the door.
26 Jan 2008 at 07:32 pm | #
justflybob - I don’t think that putting out a beta should take long at all. Surely the same process (with the same risks of software malfunction and piracy) already happens for the current ‘external’ beta testers of SD anyway.
Dave has a list of all the email addresses of registered users - it takes seconds to put a copy of the beta in a hidden directory that he can give us the access details to. IANAL, but I imagine all he would need to do to the beta from a legal point of a view is to update the TOS and ‘About’ text to say something like “This is a beta release and Shirt Pocket offers no guarantees whatsoever that it will work as advertised. The user accepts that by downloading and running this beta software he is using it at his own risk”.
26 Jan 2008 at 07:43 pm | #
Only five days since the last update, and all I can say is: Piggy, try and avoid any falling boulders (At least until the British Navy happens to show up.)
26 Jan 2008 at 11:31 pm | #
You guys want another update?
I’ll give it a go......"well there is another unexpected bug blah, blah, blah....in another few days or so....”
27 Jan 2008 at 02:10 am | #
@Morten Vine “but I imagine all he would need to do to the beta from a legal point of a view is to update the TOS and ‘About’ text to say something like “This is a beta release and Shirt Pocket offers no guarantees whatsoever that it will work as advertised. The user accepts that by downloading and running this beta software he is using it at his own risk”.”
Dude, they couldn’t get the bit about it being for Tiger, not yet Leopard; what makes you think they’ll understand the complexities of the concept of a beta? Reading the not-so-fine print and understanding it seem to be two entirely separate things.
Guys, be patient, use TM or whatever is adequate ATM; if running SD is so essential then go back to Tiger and use the product you paid for.
27 Jan 2008 at 02:22 am | #
SuperDuper not so super duper these days...I’d sure love to be a fly on the wall behind the scenes.
27 Jan 2008 at 02:37 am | #
So is this now officially as funny as the release date of Duke Nukem Forever?
All I can assume is the development team is so slow that they make Microsoft look good, who’d of thought that was possible! For an update to an application to take this long must only but suggest your planning and code execution of the current version was never designed to handle code base updates inline with current methods executed by professional developers. I can accept last minute changes to the new Mac OS caused serious problems (this is Apple after all and we know how they love to ignore anyone but themselves) but c’mon that can only excuse a certain amount of delays and unexpected gotcha’s before ya have to accept the problems are of your own making.
27 Jan 2008 at 03:22 am | #
@Mim
The best you can do is insult the intelligence of those SD! customers complaining about the update time-frame? So what if they/we complain? Is this some sort of personal affront to you? You personally?
Do you need to destroy those of us with differing opinions than yours? Does it make you feel good?
I haven’t heard one attack to other commenters from those of us that believe that Dave should give more frequent updates of progress, or even from those that feel the SD! update is late in coming for one reason or another. Yet you Shirt-Pocket-no-matter-what-supporters feel the need to denigrate us personally at every opportunity.
Does this scenario sound familiar to you that attack people for expressing their personal beliefs?
We are paying customers too, and deserve the right to say what we want without your personal insults and attacks. This is an open forum. Someone earlier in the comments referred to those that were not happy and complained as “Haters”.
It appears clear now who the real “Haters” are. Think about it.
27 Jan 2008 at 05:13 am | #
CloneTool 1.1.4: perfect back-up; bootable; 10.5.1 FREE
27 Jan 2008 at 08:38 am | #
#178 Charlie
Totally agree with you.
-----------------------------
Happy 3 month anniversary!
I want my fuc#*&g money back!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORDER SUMMARY
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: ST5xxxxxxx
Order Date: 5/27/2006
Order Method: Web Store
Name: ***** *******
Company:
Address 1: **** *********
Address 2: ***
City, State, ZIP: ********
Country: Canada
Phone: *** ***-****
mailto:********@*****.com
Qty: 1 [SP-SUPERDUPER-0001] SuperDuper! at 32.91 CAD each
Registration Information:
Serial Number Name: *************
Serial Number: SPSD******-****-****-****-****-****
Thanks for registering SuperDuper!
27 Jan 2008 at 09:03 am | #
>>Happy 3 month anniversary! I want my _____ money back!<<
I’d be happy to sell my license for $.50 on the dollar.
$15. Anyone? Pay Pal.
SAS
27 Jan 2008 at 10:05 am | #
@Charlie (#178)
Clonetool Hatchery 1.1.4
Wow, thanks for the tip!! I’d never heard of this app (not listed on VersionTracker...see MacUpdate) but after spending some time on the developer’s forum plus a little more on the web reading reviews and getting smart on it, I decided it was worth a try.
And it worked like a champ, just as Charlie said. I’m running off the clone right now and have had every application open, have saved sample docs, opened existing docs from every application I have on the drive, wireless network works fine, two printers and a scanner are operating normally from the clone. Haven’t turned TimeMachine on so I don’t know how it’ll react from the clone.
As far as I can tell, the Clonetool Hatchery clone is working flawlessly with OS 10.5.1. Now it doesn’t have some of SuperDuper’s handy features (unknown whether all will make it into the next SuperDuper anyway) but if you’re looking for a free barebones Leopard backup for something like a once/week save, this is worth a close look. It’s a small 800K download and the UI drop-dead simple.
27 Jan 2008 at 11:42 am | #
I think Dave needs more of an incentive to get this done. Maybe if some of the female Mac users offer themselves up to him, it may help to get things done faster. That seems more of an incentive than some whining users that probably want the upgrade for free.
After working on the issue you are having for the past week, I think I may have figured out the problem. Try these steps:
1. Select Hard Drive
2. Open Apple A
3. Open Apple C
4. Select Destination Drive
5. Open Apple V
Which step has you stymied?
I have another idea you may like. Don’t post the Leopard compatible version until Super Bowl Sunday. Actually, Maybe you can package the upgrade with the rental purchase of Super Bad from iTunes. Then you can entitle the new Leopard compatible version Super, Super, Super Duper!!!
Seriously Dave, runaround the workaround, and I hope you find the solution. Loved the product for my backups of Tiger. Keep up the good work. Great product!
27 Jan 2008 at 12:45 pm | #
"That seems more of an incentive than some whining users that probably want the upgrade for free.”
Over and over again users have said they would rather pay an upgrade fee and have a working product than get it for free and, well, not have it. Hell, I would pay the full price again.
Did you ignore that? Can you simply not read? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and choose reason number 1, but I fear reason number 2.
27 Jan 2008 at 02:15 pm | #
@Charlie: I tried CloneTool and I get this alert:
“Intel Mac Mode requires a GUID Partition Table. The target disk you selected has: Apple_partition_scheme.”
I then click the GPT button, but that simply seems to be an “OK” button, and nothing is repaired by it when I click it.
I’m not finding any documentation on their site or in their forums that tells me how to remedy this. So CloneTool seems like another dead end for me.
27 Jan 2008 at 04:02 pm | #
On comment trolls…
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/01/commenting.html
And I’m not saying people shouldn’t post complaints, but if you’ve said something once, it’s enough, we get it. And to #179, @Alain, you say you want your money back after using a product for a year and a half? What planet are you living on? Your sense of entitlement is amazing!
27 Jan 2008 at 04:44 pm | #
Simply amazing, reading through all the complaints. I’m afraid those would be the same folks who would scream the loudest and demand blood if their system was trashed while relying on a stable, character pure backup that *didn’t* work.
Personally, I’d rather wait for a stable product that I *know* works, and that I have full confidence will do what is “advertised.” The current version, with Tiger (10.4.11, now) works just like that… I have had to use it three times to “restore” a (perfect) backup. Once, because of a hard drive failure, and twice because I monkeyed around with system files I had no business touching.
I’m still running Tiger on my Dual 2.5GHz G5. This is my “main” machine, with 8GB of RAM and 8TB of spinning disk. This is my “life”. I have several scheduled backup routines, but primarily use Smart Update everyday on the system drive. I do full and incremental backups of a RAID 0+1 array that holds a bit over 600GB of music and photos. This is done on a daily schedule, with an erase and full backup done to an external FW800 drive on the last Sunday of the month. I’m sure I just scratch the surface compared to a lot of users, but it works for me.
While there are some “cool” things with Leopard (which I run on a 12” PB and a 15” MBP, as well as Leopard Server on another box) I will gladly, and very patiently wait until a fully tested, stable release is available. It serves no purpose to complain for the sake of complaining, or worse yet become totally disrespectful.
As many of the comments continue to point out, there are alternatives. They aren’t SD, but you can always delete the SD software (wow, you’re out $30!) and go elsewhere (where some are FREE), or just be patient.
I think I’ll wait…
Thanks, Dave, for all the hard work. I really do think it’s appreciated by most users.
27 Jan 2008 at 05:19 pm | #
Yes, we are all waiting for the final solution.
But what is a reasonable wait?
I don’t mind waiting but for how long? Will waiting another 3 months be reasonable to you?
I was one of those foolish enough to upgrade to Leopard not knowing SD! would not work with the new OS. But looking back I’m not sure I could let a copy of Leopard sit on my desk for 3+ months without upgrading just because SD! is still not compatible with Leopard.
So, how long is a unreasonable amount of time to wait in this case?
Totally subjective and to some people here they have been subjected to a wait that has become too long.
I’m just praying a solution will be found soon and my computer won’t need a backup in the mean time.
27 Jan 2008 at 07:58 pm | #
You whiners are idiots. There is no other app that does what SD! does. CCC has issues, so you can’t trust it. CloneTool? Puh-leeze. It doesn’t do anything that you can’t do with the Apple’s DiskUtility, and I’d wager that CloneTool simply taps into these commands with a simpler user interface. All the other apps are either like CCC or CloneTool - mostly worthless.
If you NEED to clone right now, fire up DiskUtility and make your clone. The beauty of SD! is that it allows you to make scheduled incremental backups to the clone so that you don’t have to clone the entire drive every time. There is no other software (that I know of) that does this - probably because it’s really hard to create an app that will do this (thus the wait).
Yes, I admit the waiting is irritating, but not nearly as irritating as finding out that it didn’t work until AFTER your main drive crashes. I wish that SD! was ready to go right now, but I would rather wait 6 months for a version that I know that I can trust than to risk losing data. Face it, the primary reason you make a clone is so that you have an EXACT duplicate of the original drive in case the original drive crashes.
So, stop your whining and let the man work.
27 Jan 2008 at 08:02 pm | #
If you have been reading the posts, SD is in its final stages. Nothing was mentioned about waiting another 3 months.
Instead of just praying over your hard drive, try using time machine which is built into the Leopard operating system, or one of the other numerous alternatives.
If you don’t find one you like, then simply wait and download SuperDuper! when it becomes fully compatible with Leopard. Until then, keep praying. Pray for my hard drive while your at it.
27 Jan 2008 at 09:02 pm | #
I’ve read all of the posts on ALL of the “waiting” blogs here and while I have to agree that this is taking a long time to get resolved, there IS a reason for it! I last used SD to clone my iMac before upgrading to Leopard. Since then I’ve waited patiently for this update and at each “workaround” stage I decided to try something new in the meantime. CCC does clone and I can boot from the clone, but some of my files won’t give me access. BruClone did a clone and I can see all of my files, but I can’t boot from the clone! Just a reboot after reboot after reboot . . . okay so my files are backed up but if my internal drive dies, I’m back to a replace and reinstall. You know what still works? Booting from my Tiger clone made from SD! This is why I will use TM every once in a while (every hour? get real) but am waiting patiently for SD for Leopard because I KNOW it will work. Go ahead . . . try something else . . . bitch at Dave . . . but the fact is, if it were easy I wouldn’t need to wait for SD. I’d have moved on . . . but so far, at least for me . . . nothing else works. Good luck, Dave. You’ve got a customer in me.
27 Jan 2008 at 11:26 pm | #
Hey, thanks for the update. I understand your want to get things right and I can’t bring myself to get angry (even though it’s now been months between a backup for me since I depend on your only-add-and-replace-never-delete back up routine). Good luck and I hope to god you finish soon so I stop living in fear.
28 Jan 2008 at 03:38 am | #
Seriously Dave, where are things at? I mean no disrespect, just looking for an honest update at this point, a lot of us are.
28 Jan 2008 at 04:39 am | #
Dave, i would be a happy camper if you could just confirm if we are talking days,weeks or months for the Leopard update.....
I am too facing serious deadlines ( pro photographer ) and i know the burden of it but it would be a good thing if you could enlighten us with rough timeframe on this update.
Either way i am and will be a client because SD shaves hours off my time to backup my photo collection.
Sam
28 Jan 2008 at 06:55 am | #
Anyone had probs with BRUclone? I used it for the first time last night and its trashed my HD. I left it working overnight and came down this morning to spinning beach ball and no access to my Mac. Patience didn’t work, force quit didn’t work, so I had to force shutdown the machine. When I rebooted, its screwed.
Booted from DVD and verified and repaired disk, and fixed permissions, etc but still no joy. Looks like the data is still intact, so I am now CCC’ing, and will then try OS install over the top.
Hurry up SuperDuper! I need you!
28 Jan 2008 at 08:54 am | #
@Alain:
You’ve gotta be freakin’ kidding me!
You bought SuperDuper in May 2006. 2006!. That’s 20 months ago. Almost 2 years. There’s no WAY you deserve your money back because YOU GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR! A backup program that works with Tiger.
Look at all the other alternatives that have been listed. Not one of them clones a Leopard volume properly. For example, look at the comments by jthawke above: “CCC does clone and I can boot from the clone, but some of my files won’t give me access. BruClone did a clone and I can see all of my files, but I can’t boot from the clone! Just a reboot after reboot after reboot . . . okay so my files are backed up but if my internal drive dies, I’m back to a replace and reinstall.”
The jury is still out on CloneTool.
It seems to me that so far, Dave is the ONLY developer who bothered to get down to the actual data structure changes that were made in Leopard. And those changes were EXTENSIVE. I know people thought cloning a Time Machine volume was stupid, and think that if he hadn’t included that ability we’d have the Leopard version of SD by now. BUT, being able to clone a Time Machine volume is a necessary part of the Leopard version of SD because Time Machine uses ALL the new features of the file system introduced in Leopard. Features that are available to everyone.
Not to mention that the current delay is due to a bug in the operating system. If the bug wasn’t there we’d probably have the new version by now.
28 Jan 2008 at 08:55 am | #
Dave, I think it’s time for an update…
28 Jan 2008 at 08:57 am | #
Oh, come on, now. You want a ridiculously late program, check out Delicious Library 2. That’s been literally “coming soon” for YEARS. This is a mere hiccup by comparison.
And bugs in a media cataloging tool are much more tolerable than bugs in a backup program.
28 Jan 2008 at 09:53 am | #
Dave,
I really hope to hear from you today. Additionally I really hope you say that SD is released.
I can’t handle backing up with another solution especially after hearing about someone trashing their HD with BruClone or whatever it is.
I know it’s my choice that I upgraded to Leopard and I’m not accusing you of anything as we’ve already covered. Although what I do hope is that now that I have upgraded and can’t very well downgrade (especially without a backup that is recent) I hope hope hope you’ll release SD today and you’ve resolved the issues.
Cheers mate.
28 Jan 2008 at 11:02 am | #
Dave (Nanian),
I think in the future it might be best to simply report on the progress of the beta program. I understand that not everyone can be in the beta program, but we’d all love to know some basic information about it. For example, you could say when a new build has been released to the testers, and maybe some general information. I assume that sometime last week you distributed a build, and now you’re waiting for feedback while also testing the build yourselves (that is, you’re in the “release candidate” stage). At least then we could all know when to keep our fingers crossed!
28 Jan 2008 at 11:50 am | #
Dave,
Thank you so much for all your hard work, and please ignore the increasingly shrill chorus in some of the comments above. And those folk, well, just chill! You knew when you updated to Leopard that many, many programs would not be compatible, due to Apple’s release strategy for new OS’s. If you have a problem, take it up with Apple, or do what many of us do, wait until our mission-critical software is compatible *before* we update every machine we own to the New and Shiny.
28 Jan 2008 at 12:03 pm | #
Another thing you could do to help would be to provide step-by-step tips (with disclaimers) on how to use the command-line asr tool to clone a drive. See here:
http://www.hmug.org/man/8/asr.php
I think the proper syntax is
asr restore --source <source> --target <target> --erase
where <source> is /Volumes/source and <target> is /Volumes/target ...
I think this should clone a drive from the source volume, but I can’t get the process to start, and I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong.
28 Jan 2008 at 12:08 pm | #
CloneTool wouldn’t work for me because it told me that my drive lacked a GUID partition or something to that effect. Documentation was scant and didn’t tell me what to do about it.
Also, reading the reviews, apparently, when you back up with Clone Tool, it changes all your creation/modification dates to the time of the clone, which would be problematic for me since I have lots of files archived and frequently judge which files are newest by reading the modification date.
I think I’ll trust Time Machine until SD is ready. Some of the feedback about the alternatives is unsettling.
28 Jan 2008 at 12:15 pm | #
@all: We are, indeed, locked down and waiting for final feedback. Internal testing has been successful.
28 Jan 2008 at 12:36 pm | #
Dave,
Great - whats that mean then? Do you still have to release test versions to beta testers and have us wait another week or what? What are you looking at. I’d absolutely love a real update to whats going on.
Super job on the internal testing going well though. Hopefully by Wednesday i’m hoping.
PLEASEEEEEE
28 Jan 2008 at 12:36 pm | #
Dave, appreciate the update. Thanks for the hard work and the patience to keep this forum going.
28 Jan 2008 at 12:38 pm | #
Must be soon! Yay!
28 Jan 2008 at 01:10 pm | #
Great News Dave! I hope the beta testing goes smoothly.
28 Jan 2008 at 01:31 pm | #
Aww, man ... does that mean this soap opera is about to come to an end :-(
28 Jan 2008 at 01:37 pm | #
I mean, c’mon Dave, couldn’t you hold off a few more days just to see if we can find somebody willing to ask for their money back for SD 1.x?
28 Jan 2008 at 01:56 pm | #
@Hal Neal
GUID is the partition scheme obligatory for running osx on intel machines. You’ll have to reformat you’re external drive –using Disk Utillity– for running osx from it anyhow.
28 Jan 2008 at 01:57 pm | #
I have no problem with an application being 100 days late as long as we don’’t see a “minor” update a week or two after it’s released to fix a few “Minor issues”. When you wait for a compatible update, and the reason you wait is so it’s “right” then it better be “right” when it’s released. Until then, there are plenty of BU alternatives to use while we wait for that “Perfect” release of SD.
28 Jan 2008 at 02:24 pm | #
Good Lord!
Some of you folks seem to think that your $28 put you on the board of directors of Dave N.’s company.
A lot more of you seem to have forgotten that this is a free update - whenever it’s released.
Eat a popsicle and CHILL
28 Jan 2008 at 03:09 pm | #
Eat a popsicle and CHILL
Actually, go take your popsicle and go outside.
Because you’re ok with paying 28 bucks for a nonworking product doesn’t mean others have to agree with you. I’m amazed at the number of people here that will take whatever shirtpocket tells them and just keep sucking on their popsicle like a child.
And god shut up about it being free. We paid for this product. If it takes more money to get a new version out, let me know where i can pay. We’re hearing the same idiotic reasons from the same idiots over and over again.
28 Jan 2008 at 03:34 pm | #
@Timo: It’s a secondary internal drive I’m trying to clone to, and I’ve reformatted it using Disk Utility several times, and Clonetool continues to return the same alert message.
28 Jan 2008 at 03:48 pm | #
@timv: Please. As I’ve said numerous times, it’s impossible to find absolutely everything, so I’m certain that we’ll have something that we’ve missed. “Right” in our case means “right” with regard to the things we, and our external testers, have found. The unknown remains unknown.
The only thing I can promise is that it won’t be perfect. What is?
28 Jan 2008 at 03:53 pm | #
Another update would be nice. If Dave isn’t certain of the timeframe, he can say: “I’m not certain of the timeframe.” I think what upsets people (including me) is the oft repeated “a few more days” estimate, which has again and again proven to be incorrect.
Are the bugs being worked out right now something that would affect a majority of users? If not, it would be entirely reasonable IMO to release a “beta” version with a clear indication of what the remaining issues are to be worked out, and whom they will affect. Then the rest of us who aren’t in that group can happily go on using SD.
Just an idea.
28 Jan 2008 at 04:13 pm | #
@Matt
You’re kidding, right?
You paid for a product that works with Tiger 10.4 . Anything beyond that statement is unrealistic expectation on your part.
You can disagree with me as much as you want, but your logic and personal attacks add nothing of value to the discussion, and never have. If you want to be pissed with someone, go yell at Apple. But then you’ll just discover that they don’t respond well to people who upgrade without reading the not too fine print.
Bottom line: You’re just pissed because you can’t have it NOW. So forget about my popsicle idea. Just go sit in a corner and think mature thoughts.
28 Jan 2008 at 04:17 pm | #
Dear Ford.
Please understand that we have been waiting breathlessly for a long time now for your new car. We understand that left turn doesn’t work properly, but we can get there by turning right all the time, so please release it anyway. We promise to not sue you. No: really we do. We promise to not turn left too often. Don’t you understand that we’re all impatient, and want the car NOW! I simply cannot understand why you won’t release a car that you know to be defective.
28 Jan 2008 at 04:23 pm | #
@matt: wow! I really don’t know in what context things should be explained to you guys. This is not a matter of one having to agree or not with everybody. It is a matter of accepting things for what they are. Dave has made it clear he WILL NOT release SD! until he is satisfied. And I truly applaud his high degree of satisfaction. So if you guys have an issue, you have three choices: sue (good luck with this), wait, or move on. $28.00 will not make your life anymore miserable or make you anymore reacher if you choose the later.
I suppose Dave has only a select small number of testers. When he makes it available to the general public, it will be thousands testing/using it. Something could still go wrong...accept it! If it does, I hope you contact him for technical support and not to bitch at him.
28 Jan 2008 at 04:43 pm | #
Hey, for what it’s worth, all I needed in #201 above was sudo. Produces a clone—when it is done it is the same as the source. So you need to rename the source volume right after you’re done so you don’t get confused as to which is which in System Preferences > Startup Disk. But otherwise it seems to work fine.
I like it because it’s using Leopard itself to clone Leopard. Cloning is not why I use SD! (though SD! makes it painless, thanks), but so many here have been looking for ways to clone (something SD! provides to all comers for free) while we’re waiting, and this seems a solid way to do it.
Screen shot here.
Rock on!
28 Jan 2008 at 04:59 pm | #
This is for @218 (Tracy):
Dear Ford,
No, I’m not asking you to market a new car that doesn’t turn left. But I am wondering a couple of things....
(1) Hey, we all understand that they changed the definition of “turning left”. In fact, we all heard about this months before they legally enacted the new definition some 100 days ago. At some point - even after you get that new turning left down - I, and quite a few people I think, might enjoy finding out why it took you so long. I mean the other car companies enabled theirs....
(2) Okay. I know the first thing you’re going to say is that those other autos usually go left when you turn the steering wheel. Usually, but not always. And safety is priority #1 with you. No problem here. I’m more curious than upset - and being a technically inclined kind of guy, I mean it with all due respect… I’d love to hear some of the technical details. And yeah, that means talk to me about those magic tires or folders or whatever it was that you were babbling about in your last PR release.
(3) PR releases. Ah. Now we get to the real thing. You see, when you announced your new car in 2005 I knew immediately that it was going to be a “best of breed” thing. But you see, I couldn’t afford one back then. So I saved for a couple of years until, in 2007 I put a deposit down - knowing full well that I’d then need to be put on a waiting list. But then I got a letter saying that my turn would come up in “a few weeks”. Then, 18 days later you explained how that last UAW strike would delay things for another “week or so”. Guess what? In another week I got the exact same letter! And a week after that - it was “a couple of days”.
Well Ford, it’s now been a full week since you said a “couple of days”. And there no word from you. No letter in my mailbox. No email in my inbox. I’m not asking for a daily update. I sure don’t want to drive a car that can’t properly turn left. But I would like something more concrete than what I’m getting.
I know you have to roadtest the sucker. And not just on some private track, but in real world conditions. But you HAVE to have an internal schedule… one that says we believe all the bugs were fixed as of Wednesday 1/23, and testing takes 7 days so if all goes well, we’ll have something more to say on 1/30.
That’s a helluva more customer-oriented than “a week or so”. Hey, I’m a reasonable guy - if testing uncovers yet another bug, so be it. But at least I wouldn’t be coming home from work every single day anxiously looking in my mailbox for a letter that doesn’t seem to be forthcoming.
Regards. And Peace.
28 Jan 2008 at 06:23 pm | #
Dear Ford,
Whatever.
28 Jan 2008 at 06:26 pm | #
In this wonderful free economy, I don’t know why people expend so much energy verbally badgering a supplier. If enough people are fed up with a particular level of service, said vendor will feel it where it counts. Granted you may have ‘lost’ the money you paid for a previous version, but the amount of new licenses bought on the day of the new release could go down significantly as well. Frankly, I think people are still warming up to the idea of backups, and slowly learning that TM doesn’t do everything they would like. The amount of articles on it are slowly increasing now that people have had time to mess around with it. A few people defecting to other ‘equally suitable’ alternatives probably aren’t going to impact the bottom line. I’d bet the loudest complainers are still likely to buy anyways. Given that it is a small developer, yelling louder probably isn’t getting anything fixed quicker. Why can’t we jsut be civil and not get on such a high horse about how this is so destructive to your daily life? You aren’t not getting something you explicitly were promised or purchased, so why act like that is the case?
28 Jan 2008 at 06:26 pm | #
Dave,
Very well said. You took the words right out of my mouth!
Umm, doesn’t Apple, Adobe, Microsoft and just about every other developer I can think of release a product and then update it shortly thereafter? I’m not saying Dave should release something he knows doesn’t work, I’m saying that if SD will work for 99% of users now and all of this delay is tweaking bugs that will affect 1% of users, I think he should release it as it with a clear proviso so the majority of us can get on with it.
Of course this may not be the case at all. I really have no idea. I do know that I’ve appreciated Dave’s excellent technical support in the past, and while this wait is frustrating, it’s not the end of the world. I’m doing hourly Time Machine back-ups, and I’ve cloned my system using DU. No biggie.
28 Jan 2008 at 06:31 pm | #
Can you imagine the support nightmare this would cause to release it, noting that it may be useless in some cases? What reassurance is that to the ‘not affected’ cases that there isn’t something else yet to be found?
28 Jan 2008 at 07:26 pm | #
@Hal Neal
open‘Disk Utillity’ >> select a volume (not a disk) >> click ‘Partition’ tab >> click ‘Options’ >> check ‘GUID Partition Table’ >> click ‘Apply’
28 Jan 2008 at 07:59 pm | #
The only thing in life that disappoints you is your own expectations.
28 Jan 2008 at 08:38 pm | #
Or, as someone wise once said “If you seek to be disappointed, then rest assured that you will be handsomely rewarded.”
28 Jan 2008 at 09:33 pm | #
Hey, my Leopard SD backup boots from the external. I thought that wasnt working yet?
28 Jan 2008 at 09:34 pm | #
What Ray Z says way above; “I just wish more software developers had your level of laziness, incompetence, lack of communication and general suckitude”
28 Jan 2008 at 10:55 pm | #
Dave I do hope you get this thing working soon, wether you like it or not, you have a lot of desperate people following what you are doing. In my case I needed to upgrade to a larger hard disk and I could not wait for SD to be ready so I start experimenting with the different options that are out there.
First one I tried was Time Machine, I attached a external drive and create a complete backup then I booted with the Leopard DVD and selected restore computer from the backup. once completed the first thing I tried was mail and to my surprise my account settings have disappeared. Discarded.
Then I tried bruClone and found strange behavior with the dock and other apps. Discarded
Finally I went for Carbon Copy Clone and tried a file-by-file backup. Some things worked others did not. Especially strange was that Photoshop did not work. So I went for a block cloning with the same tool and this one finally worked perfectly. The bad thing about this approach is that you need two more disk. One to boot up from, the one that you want to clone (can not boot from this one) and the disk that you are going to clone to.
Well, I hope that until you get your product out this may help others.
Keep up the good work and hope you get this thing working soon.
29 Jan 2008 at 12:41 am | #
I’m sure the extra time is needed to put the Super in Super Duper! For all those who are whining to Dave to get it done, I hope your hard drive(s) crash tonight. Really I do. Unless you are smart enough to create your own backup software, let Shirt Pocket get the job done (and done correctly). Worst case scenario, you lose everything up to when you were foolish enough to upgrade to Leopard without having a working back-up solution. Hey, I’m in the same boat. However, In about a week, I’m sure everyone in this forum will be loving Dave again. If I have learned anything from wasting my time reading what people have posted in this forum, it’s that good back up software is hard to find. Good luck in the beta testing. I hope it goes smoothly.
29 Jan 2008 at 01:33 am | #
@Kobra Kai
HDD failure isn’t something I’d wish on anyone, I’ve been though it once, and that’s enough.
Not a nice thing to wish on others. Why are people getting so scrappy here?
I want SD for Leopard too, but I’m not going to wish for bad things to befall those with whom I might disagree…
I’m glad Dave’s testing it and not me. Reading this blog makes me very grateful I’m not in his shoes…
29 Jan 2008 at 02:13 am | #
Actually, my one-year-and-a-few-month-old HDD died last Saturday…
I thought that i was gonna backup my leopard partition using CCC, but I didn’t (which was my mistake).
Right now, I’m using Tiger backed up with SD! on the external drive (which works perfect) and waiting for a new HDD to arrive. if SD! isn’t ready by the time I get the HDD, I might try CCC OR wait for the new version of SD!, hoping it will be out before the HDD dies again.
29 Jan 2008 at 08:58 am | #
@Ivan: I used the Apple Disk Utility’s built-in Restore function to move my Time Machine backup volume from a 1TB internal to a 1.4TB internal 2-drive Raid, which was also set up with Disk Utility. It worked like a charm. Now I await SuperDuper, which I will use to clone my 1TB boot drive to the newly cleared 1TB internal.
I think I’m going to like this backup strategy… Clone daily with SuperDuper, and have Time Machine residing on a large volume so it keeps a lot of history. Its initial backup was Nov. 30, and everyhing that it has backed up since then is still on the drive, with over 500GB of disk space remaining, so I can easily see it being able to hold 6 months of data.