I’m getting some questions about what Media Center I’ve got, so I thought I’d put up a post about it, as well as some information that I hope will be of interest.
My first MCE was an HP z555. This MCE is styled more like stereo equipment than a PCs, with a front panel transport controls and a semi-useful FL display.
The z555 has two cable tuners as well as a single HDTV tuner, various back-panel connections including Toslink and Coax for SPDIF, DVI and Component outputs (as well as S-Video and Composite), pretty much everything you’d expect. It comes with a single, easily accessed, 250GB drive, and a decent software bundle.
A few downsides: it’s not really expandable, there are no free slots (or normal boards to replace), and one drive is limiting. And one huge problem, though: it’s chuck full of fans, and they’re loud. In a media room, that doesn’t work—I tried to live with it for a few months, and it drove me nuts, so, I started looking for something else.
What I found was the Sony VGX-XL1 Media Center, which comes with a 200 disc changer, which is now available for $1799, with a $150 rebate to bring the price down to $1649… a great deal!
It’s also designed more like a piece of AV equipment. While it doesn’t have the transport controls or the display, it’s whisper quiet, and can take 3 SATA drives, which can be set up with RAID. The changer is well integrated, and quite useful. The slot-loaded DVD is elegant and easily loaded. It’s much more attractive than the HP. It’s got a built-in HDMI output, and sets up easily at high resolutions.
And, again, it’s quiet. Very quiet. Major kudos to Sony for that.
It has some downsides: they clearly intended it to be a DVD unit, since it ships with one cable/antenna tuner, and that’s pretty much it. Fortunately, there’s an open slot, and it’s easy to drop in an HDTV tuner (and the existing tuner looks like it can be replaced easily, too). The interior of the machine is very nicely laid out, only one screw type is used throughout, the drives all drop into a nice carrier, the bracing is nicely stamped, memory slots are right there in the open. Nicely done.
Of course, there’s one boneheaded thing. For some reason, Sony decided that the output from DVDs (etc) wouldn’t go directly out as SPDIF. Instead, while it’ll communicate with a receiver as SPDIF, it always goes out as Dolby Digital encoded AC3, even if the source is DTS, because you output analog to the sound card which then re-encodes.
Maybe there’s a logical reason for it, having to do with the HDMI spec or something, but it smells like Sony’s obsession with keeping first generation digital information from exiting their box. As such, it’s awfully frustrating.
Apart from that (and some complaints about the keyboard), though, it’s a really nice unit.
29 Dec 2005 at 07:33 am | #
Hi dave, thanks for sharing this info on the XL1. I am considering getting one too, but could not find a picture of its guts online - and it is not available in S’pore yet for me to open one up and look :-( Basically I would like to get rid of the tuner thingie (digita cable here), bypass the internal soundcard and fit a proper gfx card. This beast with an XFI soundcard and a dual DVI GF 7800 with vid input connected to my flat screen and my projector would look really appealing....so question 4 u: can u post a few pix of wtz inside the box or comment on whether a std video card could be installed inside? 1000x TKS in advance!
29 Dec 2005 at 08:38 am | #
I’d have to rip the thing out of its location to take a shot of its inside at this point, which is a bit too hard to do right now. But I can certainly tell you more about the graphics card.
I don’t think you’re going to be able to do it. Basically, the graphics card seems to be in multiple parts—a graphic card that has the HDMI output, and some other outputs on the back panel.
The regular tuner card is a plain card, but also has a cable to what is likely the IR receiver, so I don’t think you’d be able to get rid of that, either, without replacing it with something else.
Most of the cards are on a vertical riser, with the cards horizontal, and aren’t full-length… and fitting a 7800 in the vertical slot would probably not work—though it’s hard to be sure. Things are designed around what’s there. (The existing card works just fine for video, though—I don’t use this for much else.)
Don’t know about the XFI soundcard, but I think that won’t work either, because the sound is pretty thoroughly integrated. You really only have one slot to play with without removing things, as above.
You could add a different tuner, though—I put in a digital card (and added a USB digital tuner too) without any problem.
29 Dec 2005 at 09:06 pm | #
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the info. I am looking at purchasing one of these Media Centres from the US however we use a PAL system here in Australia. You mentioned that there was a spare slot and that the tuner card was replacable. Do you think that there would be any driver issue with installing another card. I was looking at this PCI card as it is DVB-T (PAL) compatible
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/pages/products/data_hvr1300mce.html
It is a full size PCI and was worried that
A) it wouldn’t fit in the box and
B) The drivers wouldn’t recognise it.
Any help would be appreciated…
Cheers, Paul
29 Dec 2005 at 09:46 pm | #
A full size card likely won’t fit, Paul. 3/4, maybe.
03 Feb 2006 at 06:44 pm | #
I have owned the XL1 for awhile and had many issues once I loaded the Microsoft Updates and .net framework. Some of them being that the dvd changer would constalntly loose connection and only after a reboot would the DVD Changer be recognized.
Some of the other issues were constant crashes and error messages that I have talked to Sony and MS about and they said it was a known issue and they are working on a Patch for it. At CES I was able to talk to some of the MS people and they said the patch would be out soon. On Matt Goyer’s blog is said the same thing but specifically for the cd/dvd changer issue. I hope the fix is for all the issues the XL1 has.
I was able to get everything working again by making a resintall disc and reformatiing the hard drive. Without doing any updates the machine works great. No problems whatsoever besides it being a bit slow with my large cd collection. This is a great machine and I’m anticipating the XL2 to be even better. The Sony Rep at CES said that it will have 1GB of DDR2 RAM, 500GB HD, ViiV Processor, Blue Ray DVD Drive and additional software. They also mentioned that they will sell their DVD/CD changer seperately so you can add it to any Media Center PC. I hope they do this because I build Media Center PC’s and am currently sending one to be apart of the ViiV line.
03 Feb 2006 at 06:59 pm | #
Interesting, Jason. I have all the updates applied and I’m not having any real problems with stability or anything else other than the changer if I allowed hard disk sleep. (In fact, the reference in Matt’s blog is due to my article and workaround.)
What specific problems were they working on a patch for?
But—I’m sure there are things they’re working on (there are problems in everything, after all), and I’m looking forward to the XL2 and the separate XL1B.
But even now, especially at these prices, the VGX-XL1 is a great media center. I hope Sony keeps up their efforts in this area.
15 Feb 2006 at 09:08 pm | #
A lot of great information. I’m curious, do you know any more information about the XL2 release timeline? Is it worth holding out for? or to long away to matter?
Also, I’m concerned with the max of 200 DVD’s. I already have a DVD collection just pushing 200 DVD’s and would like to be able to have my newer DVD’s as part of the collection without having to try and decide which older DVD’s have to go. Basically… do you know if the XL1 supports multiple XL1B’s ? or multiple changers in general?
Thanks!
15 Feb 2006 at 09:28 pm | #
I only know what’s out there from CES, Mike—it sounds like it’s a nice update with a better video card, processor, etc—while retaining the same changer.
According to Matt Goyer, MCE does support multiple changers (though only the first one works with the “manage” feature). However, Sony doesn’t yet sell the XL1B separately.
Support indicated they will, though… but who knows how much it’ll cost. Might be as much as this deal!
Note: it’s not possible to just attach any changer to these machines—only very specific ones work. I’m pretty sure they’re all the same OEM unit, too, decorated with different cosmetics. Considering that Niveus sells just the changer for $2499, you could buy a second XL1, sell the computer, keep the changer, and come out pretty well.
15 Feb 2006 at 09:45 pm | #
Thanks for your quick input! You had my thoughts exactly about purchasing a second XL1 for cheaper than the Niveus unit.
It definately looks promising for the XL2, however I might just end up having to get the XL1 and deal with it when the time comes on how to approach my 200 DVD limit!
Thanks again!
15 Feb 2006 at 10:02 pm | #
Let me know what you think if you get one, Mike.
23 Apr 2006 at 01:23 pm | #
Just picked up the Sony XL1 system from the TigerDirect outlet store for $1099.00, no rebate, not refurbished. Pretty neat system. DVD changer is a bit noisy when it starts up, but other than that it is working fine.
23 Apr 2006 at 01:39 pm | #
Hey, nice. It doesn’t seem to be on their site: was this at a bricks and mortar outlet?
16 May 2006 at 12:55 pm | #
Here’s the link to the TigerDirect sale: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2076126&Tab=0&NoMapp=0
I’m seriously considering buying one soon, which is why I stumbled across your site. Love the look of it and it sounds like exactly what I have wanted. I have tons of DiVx and Xvid files on my PC that I want to play on my TV. I just want to be able to access all my video and audio from my TV.
Any DRM issues that you have run into? My local UPN affiliate has a terrible reception and I haven’t moved up to HD yet (my next move after this). So I download Veronica Mars and watch it the next day. Would love to save the time it takes me to encode and burn each episode to DVD.
Thanks for the info!
16 May 2006 at 03:03 pm | #
If the shows are marked as “Copy Protected” or “Do Not Copy”, they can’t be archived to DVD. I don’t know what shows might or might not have this restriction applied, but I encountered this problem myself attempting to burn a DVD of an episode of 24.
This’d be the same with any, though.
Note, too—the link right in this post goes to Amazon where the item is available for the $1099, too!
16 May 2006 at 03:11 pm | #
That’s interesting. I guess the network decided that 24 shouldn’t be copied to a DVD and put in some sort of tag that MCE picked up on. Ever had any trouble playing DiVx or Xvid files? That’s the only thing that worries me - MS deciding that MCE should only play DRMed files.
16 May 2006 at 03:28 pm | #
No, no problem at all: in fact, if you look at the various Green Button forums, there are a lot of people doing just that.
09 Jun 2006 at 04:15 pm | #
Hi Dave. I just purchased an XL-1 unit without realizing that the only video out was HDMI. I need to output in S-Video until I can afford to replace my existing projection TV. I was considering replacing the vid card with one that has s-vid out but your earlier comments about the graphics being in parts concerns me. I haven’t been able to find an adapter to convert HDMI to s-Vid. Any suggestions? Thanks much in advance.
09 Jun 2006 at 04:40 pm | #
As I recall, there’s also a DVI (HDMI->DVI adapter) and Component outputs… S-Video, though, I haven’t seen. There might be a component to SVideo converter, though…
09 Jun 2006 at 04:51 pm | #
Thanks for the response Dave. I did find an HDMI to DVI adapter but nothing to s-Vid though. What about another graphics card?
09 Jun 2006 at 05:04 pm | #
I think it’s pretty unlikely that a replacement graphics card will work. I haven’t tried it, though…
24 Jul 2006 at 06:34 pm | #
Hi,
I have an XL1A. Very buggy system. I have had all sorts of problems with screensaver and standby conflicts. My choices are to leave it on all the time and disable all power savings and screensavers or to turn it off completely. (It was this way before I changed video cards, FWIW). Lot’s of funky design decisions (like the DVD recorder is only in the changer unit and component outputs are crippled to only support 480p), most of which seem to have been made in a bizarre attempt to prevent copying of digital content or to support misc. DRM schemes. How very...SONY. I could not, in good faith, recommend this system to anybody.
Regarding the video card questions: It is possible to change the video card. It is not spread across multiple components. The system ships with some sort of custom-built ASUS (PCI Express, HDMI) card based on Nvidia 6200 GFX. If you call SONY they will tell you that they do not recommend replacing it, but it is possible to do. I opted to go ahead and do it because the HDMI card the unit ships with is not capable of displaying a signal in a native 1360x768 output to an LCD monitor (it will only output at typical, HDTV based resolutions) and text looked very blurry on my LCD-TV.
However, you need to be careful about the replacement you select. The new card can’t be a power hog, since the XL1 only ships with a 300w power supply. It needs to be a PCI express card. It needs to be low profile. Preferably it would be passively cooled. I eventually replaced with an XFX low profile card based on the 6600 chipset. I figured I would have fewer possible driver conflicts if I stayed with the Nvidia family.
It works fine as long as I connect to the LCD via DVI to VGA (which I want to do in order to have native resolution of 1360x768). If I try to go DVI to DVI the system won’t start up all the way. I suspect there is some sort of HDCP protection firmware on the motherboard that prevents the system from booting if it thinks you are trying to output an HD signal on a non HDCP protected card.
Another possibility might be the new Sapphire x1600 pro HDMI card. Looks like it fits the bill in terms of low profile. Unfortunately, it is fan cooled so it will add some noise, as well as blow heat right onto the back of the PCI bus. Not sure how much power it draws. But it should be HDCP compliant.
24 Jul 2006 at 06:47 pm | #
Interesting, Michael. I don’t actually use standby, but have heard that things improved significantly since they released later changer drivers. I haven’t had any problems with screen savers. Do you think your problems are specific to the Sony itself? It might be Windows and/or media center…
The later XL2A put a recorder in the unit as well as in the changer—I don’t think that was designed to preclude digital copying. Rather, I think it was designed to save costs, since they expected people to burn a bunch of CD/DVDs at once (with their various show archiving functions), rather than one at a time.
The component problem is acknowledged and a pain. I use HDMI so it hasn’t been an issue, and my projector has 1080i inputs, so that’s worked pretty well, without blurriness.
But, overall, I continue to be very happy with the unit. I wish I had the new display card from the XL2 (which is a 6600) and that the sound issue I mentioned wasn’t there, but those are relatively minor issue. I’m sorry you aren’t as pleased with yours!
24 Jul 2006 at 07:29 pm | #
Hi,
Perhaps they’ve ironed some things out with the XL2. Putting a DVD burner in the actual unit is a good start. The also up’ed the RAM and Diskspace which is a good thing. I assume the 6600 card they installed doesn’t leach off the system RAM like the 6200 card did, which is also a good thing. Unfortunately, the updated changer drivers haven’t helped with my standby issues, and I see from reading the boards that the changer stability continues to pose a challenge for many people, even with the XL2.
Re: DRM crippleware
The location of the burner isn’t a DRM thing, it’s just a stupid thing. However, I believe that the crippling of the component-out and the enabling of HDCP via the HDMI out is a very ham-handed DRM thing. Silly too, when you consider that you can go to Walmart and buy a consumer DVD with 720p component out for $30 bucks. I keep wondering which pirates they are thwarting by making the system less useful for their paying customers? I would have less of an issue with this if they were up front about it, but their marketing materials and website don’t mention it. Bad. Bad. Bad.
Re: Standby
It will go into standby just fine. It’s getting out of it that is the problem. It starts back-up halfway, spins the CDR drive, spins the harddisk briefly, and then freezes. And then it won’t restart easily. I have to do a hard reboot of the system by cycling the power button again and again, until eventually (and seemingly at random) it decides to truly boot back up. I wonder how many times I can do that before I corrupt the boot sectors of the hard drive or fry some other component in the system.
Is it Sony? Microsoft MCE? Misc. Drivers? The true answer is probably: “Yes”. There’s plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunately Microsoft consideres MCE to be an OEM OS, and insists that you get support from the PC manufacturer. And the Sony reps, god bless them, seem particularly clueless about the XL1. I guess there are just not enough in the market to bother training them properly on the system.
Both Sony and Microsoft have been slow to document known issues and offer fixes, workarounds or other updates.
Anyway, I didn’t write to belabor my deep seated hatred for Sony as a result of owning this PC (really I didn’t!) I was more motivated to respond to the question of whether or not it is possible to swap the video card.
Thanks for responding to my comments, though—glad you are happier with your system than I have been with mine!
-Mike
24 Jul 2006 at 08:38 pm | #
I’m happy to say that with 5 changers, I haven’t had any stability problems at all. They’ve been working really well… for me. But, as I said, I don’t stand by.
The copy protection thing is a pain. HDMI’s HDCP stuff, also a pain. Alas, things are moving that way—and it’s not so much Sony the electronics manufacturer as Sony the Media Conglomerate, and all the major media providers are being weenies about copy protection.
Anyway, in the end, every one of these things is a compromise. I think Sony did a better job with their compromise than HP did, and the system has proved reliable in my use. To get it that way, I also had to compromise and disable standby.
But, I’ve got it loaded up with three drives, 2GB of memory, five changers, four tuners (two PCI, two USB; two cable, two HDTV)… and given all that it performs for me day after day. Wish yours did the same!